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Poem Purist Perspective
05-20-2018, 08:47 PM,
#11
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
Great write up! Thanks for taking the time to put that all down...
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05-21-2018, 08:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2018, 08:13 AM by filmguy.)
#12
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
I also believe is important to decipher the words Fenn wanted to use, without having to adhere to the rhythm scheme.

For example,

The word halt feels really forced. It's obviously there to rhythm with walk. (I know it's not a true rhythm, but I never said Fenn was a good poet).

So, instead of halt what word would Fenn use if he was writing free verse?
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05-21-2018, 09:13 AM,
#13
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
(05-21-2018, 08:06 AM)filmguy Wrote: I also believe is important to decipher the words Fenn wanted to use, without having to adhere to the rhythm scheme.

For example,

The word halt feels really forced. It's obviously there to rhythm with walk. (I know it's not a true rhythm, but I never said Fenn was a good poet).

So, instead of halt what word would Fenn use if he was writing free verse?

Going with the baseball-oriented theme, balk?
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05-21-2018, 09:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2018, 09:29 AM by TwistedAnkle.)
#14
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
(05-21-2018, 09:13 AM)Beavertooth Wrote:
(05-21-2018, 08:06 AM)filmguy Wrote: I also believe is important to decipher the words Fenn wanted to use, without having to adhere to the rhythm scheme.

For example,

The word halt feels really forced. It's obviously there to rhythm with walk. (I know it's not a true rhythm, but I never said Fenn was a good poet).

So, instead of halt what word would Fenn use if he was writing free verse?

Going with the baseball-oriented theme, balk?

I think it might be just the opposite. What if "halt" was the word he needed to absolutely use for some reason? Remembering how much emphasis he puts on this as the first clue, and being so critical to solve up front. I think that line had to be perfect, and for some reason needed to end in "halt". He might have then used the forced word "walk", which could explain why there is so much struggling over how ambiguous the line is. Just a thought.
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05-21-2018, 09:52 AM,
#15
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
True "walk" could be the forced word, but look at the line "To far too walk," then look at "warm waters halts."

Which do you think is more commonly spoken than the other?

One I hear all the time, the other I've never heard anyone say that phrase.
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05-21-2018, 10:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2018, 10:32 AM by realistrealist.)
#16
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
(05-21-2018, 09:52 AM)filmguy Wrote: True "walk" could be the forced word, but look at the line "To far too walk," then look at "warm waters halts."

Which do you think is more commonly spoken than the other?

One I hear all the time, the other I've never heard anyone say that phrase.

I believe you're doing too much work. Don't force things that aren't there or try to decipher what you think should have been there. It was written that way for a reason; I agree with Twisted.

One of the phrases is more common then the other. I don't know if I've ever heard someone say any of the following: where warm waters halt, where warm waters stop, where warm waters walk, where warm waters talk, where warm waters flow.

I believe halts was chosen to provide exactly the meaning of what waters were doing there as well as provide the clue to where they were located and where "there" is. Use any of the other terms (outside of potentially "stops" which doesn't rhyme and doesn't sound as poetic) and you lose the answer of where "there" is.

Even though I like the NE section based on all of the terms/hints, there's always the possibility the true start point is somewhere else. An example is: South of Mammoth by Indian Creek (brave) at Willow Park (in the wood, park) - but this doesn't really make as much sense for truly going in there.
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05-21-2018, 12:53 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2018, 02:42 PM by realistrealist.)
#17
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
Addition:

Punctuation:

The second stanza is separated into two sentences. The first sentence appears to be describing a single item that spans from a start point “where warm waters halt” to an end point of “not far, but too far to walk.” Many believe the description here is a roadway or a river/creek. The punctuation doesn’t appear to help in determining what “it” is, but it does show one continuous item to travel. Things change in the last line of the second stanza; however, which stands as its own sentence – the only such instance in the poem. What hint could this provide? Looking back at stanza one and looking up the definition of bold might help in determining the exact meaning of this sentence. If the first stanza is describing Montana and is relating the word “bold” to Montana, is it logical to view this sentence, “home of Brown”, standing by itself as “bold” within the context of the poem. Not only that, but “Brown” is the only capitalized noun in the entire poem. Is the structure of this sentence a big hint to the “home of Brown” being beneath Montana, just as the second stanza is beneath the first?

A semi-colon is only used once in the poem. It connects in the middle of four lines in stanza 3 which all form one sentence together. As mentioned above, semi-colons are “most commonly used to link two independent clauses that are closely related in thought.” If lines 1 and 2 are connected to lines 3 and 4, what is the related thought that is common to all lines? Is it a trail with those four elements you’ll find along it? The key word here might be “drawing.” If “X” were to mark the spot of where the blaze can be found, these four lines may paint a rough target area – something you can only get by drawing from line 1 to 2 and then from 3 to 4, creating two separate lines; separated by a semi-colon, but relating to a singular spot.

The fourth stanza is also four lines long and begins by stating “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze,”. This seems to state, like the first stanza, that the blaze is the central idea of the stanza. Lines 2, 3, and 4 are all non-restrictive based on the commas of lines 1, 2, and 3. The lines are additions that are not needed to find the blaze, but they do give you other information in what appears to be related to the position of the chest with respect to the blaze.

The fifth stanza is separated into two sentences. The first sentence is a question and it appears the second sentence is the answer to that question.

The sixth stanza is also separated into two sentences and appears to link to the fifth stanza based on it’s punctuation, albeit in reversed in order. The first set of lines in the fifth stanza are connected by enjambment as are the second set of lines in the sixth stanza. The reverse is true with respect to commas for the second set of lines in the fifth stanza and the first set of lines in the sixth stanza. The open or enjambed lines were already discussed above.


(05-20-2018, 08:47 PM)Baileyrx Wrote: Great write up! Thanks for taking the time to put that all down...

Thanks Smile Hopefully it helps out someone.
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05-21-2018, 12:57 PM,
#18
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
"I believe you're doing too much work."

Haha, compared to what some people are doing or have done, changing the poem to its unrythmed scheme would seem like a cake walk.

I don't know, maybe 2015 or 2014. I had emailed Fenn my version of this unrythmed scheme and he said close enough. Might not have any meaning behind the response or he might have said it in jest, but I'm going to take it as there aren't any special hidden meaning behind words. Like neigh meaning the end, not left or horse related or whatever. But people take Fenn's responses to mean completely different things.
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05-21-2018, 10:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2018, 10:50 PM by realistrealist.)
#19
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
I've seen many guess Lamar Ranger Station, but never seen the use of the definition of station oddly "put in or assign to a specified place for a particular purpose, especially a military one."
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05-21-2018, 11:24 PM,
#20
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
(05-21-2018, 10:49 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I've seen many guess Lamar Ranger Station, but never seen the use of the definition of station oddly "put in or assign to a specified place for a particular purpose, especially a military one."

Station a guard on the left flank, or in the watchtower, etc. Station troops at a fort -- as in Dances With Wolves.

Unless I misunderstood your comment.
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