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Poem Purist Perspective
06-12-2018, 05:54 PM,
#71
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
I'm not Mr. Fenn
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06-12-2018, 06:01 PM,
#72
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
(06-12-2018, 05:54 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm not Mr. Fenn

Ah ya think.
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06-12-2018, 06:16 PM,
#73
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
Kettle,
Look at a Junior Member with absolutely little or no posting or time on CC. The sign up dates may also be older. IMO
I do believe there may be some wisdom from that posting but that is just my idea. I don't think f would post under a senior member; who knows. Hummm... LOL "Ah ya think" Coffee all over my desk.
I like your posts; very well put.
My thoughts on the right versus the left and sun as the trip progresses is the left has a blinder and the right is open.
just saying ss
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06-12-2018, 06:21 PM,
#74
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
(06-12-2018, 06:16 PM)easternOHsteve Wrote: Kettle,
Look at a Junior Member with absolutely little or no posting or time on CC. The sign up dates may also be older. IMO
I do believe there may be some wisdom from that posting but that is just my idea. I don't think f would post under a senior member; who knows. Hummm... LOL "Ah ya think" Coffee all over my desk.
I like your posts; very well put.
My thoughts on the right versus the left and sun as the trip progresses is the left has a blinder and the right is open.

Yes thank you. Junior poster yes. Follower in the shadows I’ve been creeping for sometime. I will say that I am very pleased with the caliber of searchers here. I have learned much from comments posts and many threads thank you to all.
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06-12-2018, 11:09 PM,
#75
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
I meant f might be a junior member... I am too vague I guess. I have given hints on here (CC) from my trip that are not so specific that you could put them to a spot.
I have been mulling whether I should give out one of my hints that I revealed to one privately (only one person). Since I have not gotten much of a response, I'll just throw it out.
Listen good...
If it helps someone, and I know it might because of the two seas or to cease chats, here goes:
Lineal is 10 go outside diameter. This ties in with the new book and the strong men...
My trip of two Cs has not been mentioned in the chats (as I envision them); however, that does not mean no one has found the "to cease." I can't go into that detail; it would point to my trip. I am in a hold pattern until the "smoke" from the fires clear.
just saying ss
Reply
06-22-2018, 04:16 PM,
#76
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
(05-19-2018, 07:54 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm a little tired, so putting down what I have for now. Open to suggestions on what I missed or other perspectives. Some of this stuff has already been said by a number of people.

A key to reading the poem and deriving meaning is to understand the use of poetic conventions and devices. Simply google searching “poetic devices” will lead you to a listing of what poets use in their writings to convey meaning. Poets use poetic devices to leave breadcrumbs for the reader to understand the underlying meaning of their poems. Fenn appears to use many poetic devices. One of the most well known poetic devices is alliteration.

Alliteration:

“Alliteration is a rhetorical device that repeats the same sound, usually a consonant, at the start of a series of words or sentences… Depending on how alliteration is used in the text, it can have a different impact on the meaning of the text or how the reader experiences it… Alliteration can't carry the whole poem or piece of prose. When it is used, it typically includes a few words to a sentence. Sometimes, it is used with as little as two words. Alliteration emphasizes the meaning contained in those words. In William Shakespeare's "Sonnet 73," alliteration occurs in the line "Which by and by black night doth take away." The emphasis on those words underscores the theme of the whole poem, which is the passage of time leading to death, or "black night."”

The most notable appearance of alliteration in Fenn’s poem is in what is assumed to be the first clue: “Begin it where warm waters halt”. Fenn often cites the first clue as the most important clue in the poem. He has often stated that if you don’t know where warm waters halt, you have nothing. He uses alliteration in the poem to emphasize the importance of the beginning point. There is a high likelihood the letter W is intentionally used and that it is directly related to the correct first clue. Whether that means the warm waters start with the letter W or are named “warm” hasn’t been proven yet, but it is likely one of those two are true. One of TTOTC’s chapters is titled “Me in the Middle” and in the middle of the three W’s is “warm.” The other possibilities are that the treasure and trove are located along warm waters as are all the other eight clues or the W is referring to Wyoming.

Chremamorphism:

Chremamorphism is “giving characteristics of an object to a person.” In stanzas 1, 5, and 6, it appears that the word “I” is corresponding to both Fenn and the landscape features of the map he is creating with the poem. He is describing locations from an overhead or pilot’s point of view. He is attributing those landscape features to himself in a sort of reverse form of personification. Fenn actually may subtly hint at this in TTOTC when he says, “And I laughed at myself for being so human” in My War for Me.

The landscape features provide the general area of the clues and the beginning of the actual route to the treasure chest. He foreshadows “where warm waters halt” when writing “hint of treasures new and old.” The hints are map boundaries that can be matched to landscape place names in the correct region.

The hints appear to be:
• Alone
• Bold
• Secret
• Where
• Riches new and old
• Why
• Trove
• Seek
• Answers I know
• Hear me all
• Listen good
• Effort
• Cold
• Brave
• In the wood
• Title
• Gold

If you take the above terms and match them to landscape features on a map, you should be put in the correct general area of the starting point. If all of these terms relate to the physical landscape surrounding the starting point, or the entire route of the clues, how does a searcher narrow down the correct region within the Rockies? It appears Fenn uses homophones.

Homophones:

Taken from Wikipedia, “Homophones are often used to create puns and to deceive the reader (as in crossword puzzles) or to suggest multiple meanings. The last usage is common in poetry and creative literature. An example of this is seen in Dylan Thomas's radio play Under Milk Wood: "The shops in mourning" where mourning can be heard as mourning or morning.”

A subset of homophones are sometimes called oronyms: “Homophones of multiple words or phrases (as sometimes seen in word games) are also known as "oronyms".”
A few examples taken from Wikipedia are:

• “"ice cream" vs. "I scream" (as in the popular song "I scream. You scream. We all scream for ice cream.")
• "euthanasia" vs. "Youth in Asia"
• "depend" vs. "deep end"
• "Gemini" vs. "Jim and I" vs. "Jem in eye"”

It appears Fenn may have used a few homophones or oronyms in his poem.

Examples taken from the poem are below:
• “alone in there” – alone in the air
• “why is it I must go and leave my” – Wyoming
• “where” – ware; “secret where” - silverware
• “hear me all” – Heimdallr
• “end is ever” – endeavor
• “drawing nigh” – drawing I or drawing eye
• “quest to cease” – quest two C’s/quest two seas
• “quickly” – quick-tree (an Old English name for aspen was cwicbeam, literally "quick-tree")
• “wise” – Y’s
• “they’ll be no” – del bano
• “paddle up your creek” – pad L/pedal upper creek
• “listen” – list N

It is also possible he spelled out CYCLING within the poem by using homophones (though unlikely).

Punctuation:

Punctuation in poetry can be used in a variety of ways. An image is attached below that shows the way Fenn breaks apart the poem with punctuation. Periods, commas, semi-colons, and blank punctuation (no punctuation) at the end of a line can serve to drastically alter a line’s meaning. “Enjambment, derived from the French word enjambment, means to step over, or put legs across. In poetry it means moving over from one line to another without a terminating punctuation mark. It can be defined as a thought or sense, phrase or clause, in a line of poetry that does not come to an end at the line break, but moves over to the next line. In simple words, it is the running on of a sense from one couplet or line to the next without a major pause or syntactical break.” Some features of enjambment are:

• “It is a running on of a thought from one line to another without final punctuation.
• It is used in poetry to trick a reader. Poets lead their readers to think of an idea, then move on the next line, giving an idea that conflicts with it.”

There are four lines that do not end with punctuation. The lines are:

• “As I have gone alone in there”
• “Begin it where warm waters halt”
• “So why is it I must go”
• “If you are brave an in the wood”

The first and third line above are related to one another and the second and fourth lines appear to be related to one another. Focusing on the first and third lines, both lines are speaking to Fenn going alone somewhere. As shown for the third line, “why is it I must go” is a near homophone for Wyoming. Likewise, the first line also appears a homophone and verifying the third line – “why...go” “alone.” He answers because he has done it tired and now he is weak.

The second line appears more ambiguous and tougher to understand, but if we are supposed to understand that it is related to the fourth line (similarly to the first and third lines above) then we would know that “warm waters halt” “in the wood.” Looking up synonyms of halt that mean “in the wood” results in “park” (verb meaning – “bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt”; noun derived from parc – “"enclosed wood or heath land used as a game preserve"). It appears the linking of these sentences is no coincidence.

Combining the information from the non-punctuated lines results in “Park” and “Wyoming”. This can mean a number of things: the beginning point is Park County, Wyoming; the beginning point is Park County (MT or WY) and the chest is in Wyoming; the starting point is a National Park in Wyoming; etc. The enjambment of, “So why is it that I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?” with no punctuation separating the lines seems to suggest that the trove is hidden in Wyoming. Lines that begin with a capitalized, “And” link a singular idea between lines and Fenn uses no terminal punctuation prior to such lines. To check if Park County, WY or a Park in Wyoming is the starting point, it’d be wise to go back to the beginning of the poem.

At the beginning of the poem, prior to the clues coming into play, it appears the enjambment of, “As I have gone alone in there And with my treasures bold,” is referring to the two nicknames of Montana: Big Sky Country (alone in “the air” from the homophones section) and, the capitalized, The Treasure State (“treasures bold”). “Warm” waters or “W” waters should help narrow this down further along with the existence of a suitable canyon and give the actual starting point defined by the clues. If the hints derived from nouns seen in the chremamorphism section are correct, it shouldn’t be too difficult to find the correct starting point.

After looking at the parts of the poem without punctuation, there are commas, semi-colons, and periods. Commas “set off non-restrictive modifiers” that add “information that is not essential to our understanding the sentence.” They can be removed and the sentence should still stand on its own. Semi-colons are “most commonly used to link two independent clauses that are closely related in thought.” Periods are “placed at the end of a declarative sentence to indicate a full stop.” “One of the most powerful tools in any reader’s arsenal is the pause. Where do pauses occur in a poem? Wherever you see a powerful moment. Such moments include any punctuated pause, including dashes, commas, semicolons, or periods. Poets use punctuation as carefully and meaningfully as they use any other part of language; it’s always powerful.”

Armed with the above knowledge, and starting with the first stanza, Montana’s nicknames were already discovered in the first two lines using a homophones and logical deduction. The first line is followed by a comma, comma, and period in lines 2, 3, and 4 respectively. We showed how the enjambment between lines 1 and 2 showed a continuation of a single idea, Montana’s nicknames, and it is likely that lines 3 and 4 are linked to Montana, but the commas indicate the lines are non-restrictive (they are not restricting where Fenn has gone, Montana). It appears that lines 3 and 4 one of two things: Montana’s motto “oro y plata” which is translated to “Gold and Silver” or the towns of Silver Gate and Cooke City. Line 3 may be referring to a specific place within Montana or it may be describing, via homophone, the “ware”s (“riches” – natural resources) of Montana. Or the homophone “ware” may be referring to pottery and cookware/bakeware pointing to Cooke City in Montana. “It is tough to leave out any other information that links the lines to Montana (and thus no knowledge/research needed requirement), but that information is included below just as an addendum:

• Gold and silver have been used as currency since the fourth millennium BCE (old vs. riches new of the chest)
• Silver mining (“secret where” -> silver ware) was a major industry in Montana in the 1800’s - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Silver_Mining
• Girl Scouts song “Make New Friends” – “Make new friends, but keep the old. One is silver, the other is gold” may help link the lines.

Paradox:

“The term paradox is from the Greek word paradoxon, which means “contrary to expectations, existing belief, or perceived opinion.”

It is a statement that appears to be self-contradictory or silly, but which may include a latent truth. It is also used to illustrate an opinion or statement contrary to accepted traditional ideas. A paradox is often used to make a reader think over an idea in innovative way.”

Fenn appears to use a few paradoxes in his poem. They are:

• “Not far, but too far to walk”
• “Your effort will be worth the cold”

“Not far, but too far” appears to be an inconsequential and ambiguous statement to be made if the intent is to give directions to somewhere. Fenn could have simply removed the line and wrote “drive” if that’s what was meant by the line. Most believe it means you will be driving. But, the line appears to be written ambiguously as a paradox to challenge the reader to come up with an innovative solution – using their imagination to come up with the answer. To drive would be the simple answer and it appears to be the wrong answer. The hidden truth is that not far isn't far at all. It may refer to a bridge crossing, crossing a street, or some other crossing.

The second line, “Your effort will be worth the cold” seems like it is written backwards. Effort has a few definitions such as: “use of physical or mental energy; hard work,” “a notable achievement,” and “earnest and conscientious activity intended to do or accomplish something.” When reading the line from the poem, the immediate thought is that effort is referring to physical exertion, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. So why would Fenn write effort instead of achievement or reward? Is effort in some way linked to the homophone endeavor in “the end is ever drawing nigh.” If so, in what way does the effort require you to get cold? Is this figurative or referring to cold temperature (trout waters, snow, ice, etc.)?


https://imgur.com/a/TAwETWl
Frosty = the cold. The proof is just up ahead. You could take the blue or red pill but don't drink the lemonade, it needs filtered of the small marine biology that exists, I mean lives in it.
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06-22-2018, 04:21 PM,
#77
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
I drank that lemonade. It saved my life one day. The hotter you get the colder you feel.
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06-23-2018, 02:20 AM,
#78
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
Listen good...
If it helps someone, and I know it might because of the two seas or to cease chats, here goes:
Lineal is 10 go outside diameter. This ties in with the new book and the strong men...
My trip of two Cs has not been mentioned in the chats (as I envision them); however, that does not mean no one has found the "to cease." I can't go into that detail; it would point to my trip. I am in a hold pattern until the "smoke" from the fires clear.
[/quote]
If your talking about finding the C and the ll(Roman numeral C) then your way behind, Imo. But way ahead of most. The tc is covered very well by listening well to the whole(all) and looking through the window of his art. His pages are full of metaphor that matches what is going on in the next page if it's a drawing or picture. But you must use a light on the other side. I don't know why I tell you guys this stuff over and over. Maybe one day I will give you the full answer to one clue with the supporting drawings, poem, book text, outside comments by F and plus an Annagram that eludes to it. I've had my eye on the prize but I may have to weight to mete my feit. Being limber of mind is key. Metaphor is key. Down and why will not be hard if you go and leave the meek to look for their own waters. You found two C's. I found two C's with ease cause the light shone through the leaves of my ash tree or was it a Gambol Oak? The gold is sheltered in deed and and now my point has been made. Remember indecision is the key to flexibility and that's WHY he weighted sew long to secret his cash.
You see I have one word that is defined in exactly 9 ways and those 9 meanings are 9 words in the poem. I guess it could be a consequence but one of the first things I did when tackling this was creating a star chart of each word in poem with tracking back to Sanskrit or whatever source lay at its foundation. I still didn't have this word. It took knowing one of the later clues to put it in front of my face. Then it was changing my way of thinking about or listening to this word. What did it tell me or show me? I didnt know write away.
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06-23-2018, 03:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-23-2018, 04:44 AM by heyoka.)
#79
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
Could it be possible to find the place you found with only the poem? What year is your map§??

by year I mean the paige of the poem

it's a contraction

κᾱ̓γώ
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06-23-2018, 04:47 AM,
#80
RE: Poem Purist Perspective
(06-23-2018, 03:47 AM)heyoka Wrote: Could it be possible to find the place you found with only the poem? What year is your map§??

I did find the area with only the poem. But the hints will save many weeks of searching. Well, ms slows me down a bit, lol... The poem is pretty accurate by itself. In my trip anyway. The hints all solidify the area, the route and the exact spot (on paper at least)... I used Google map and GIS maps. USGS is not absolutely necessary since GE has that function built in. I also found he air traffic map (interactive) to be of assistance...
I did not have money to purchase the books at first; but after a month and three weeks of BOTG and driving around and around and attempts at walking 13 miles, I had to find another way in there... I have purchased a high-clearance pickup with 4WD and the map shows the 4WD roadways among other features...
Fire restrictions and cash depletion are in effect right at the moment. I like the 4th weekend and the week after the 4th as possible BOTG again...
My first year anniversity of finding about the chase is June 30th... My first BOTG was the two weeks of July 4th and next week 2017.
I forgot to relate that the GIS map online is 1985 vintage. They were updated in 1987... I looked at the 1850s maps; but they did not help me (much)...
just saying ss
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