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Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
09-10-2013, 02:23 PM,
#1
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
*
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09-10-2013, 05:21 PM,
#2
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
you said it appears it is out of his control to confirm the chest is still there, but FFs most recent statement on the subject contradicts that. do you not believe him?



i know he said at CW that he cannot know for sure and he is relying on the finder to come forward, then he turned around and said he knows but cannot say how. if the latter is the truth then FF not being forthcoming before makes sense because he didn't even want to say that he can confirm its present position much less how he can.



"It has become obvious though that unless Mr. Fenn starts hiring some employees, there is no way possible to let a hypothetical finder know that indeed that was the place. Operative word being was"



im not sure what you're getting at here. you mean "WAS" because maybe the treasure isn't there now and FF does not know? and so, if that is the case FF may need to let someone know that they had the right place but now he realizes someone else found it?



if i am totally getting that wrong, then what is the reference to letting someone know they had the right place. FF isn't going to let anyone know if they have the right place, even if they emailed him the exact coordinates. He said, if you think you know where it is, if you want it, you have to go get it, that's how it works.



There it was all the time, staring you in the face. Buried within the message itself is the key to decoding it. ~ S.R. Hadden
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09-10-2013, 07:52 PM,
#3
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
I can think of at least three ways Forrest can know if the chest is found, even if the finder does not come forward. Though I think that is an unlikely scenario. I know some people would like to shun the limelight, and the tax liability that will come with it, but the only way to liquidate the treasure for anywhere near it's true value is to sell it at a well-publicized auction. Any other "under the table" type course of action would throw away roughly half the value of the treasure in my estimation. I think greed will win out in the end. I'll pass along one of my ideas for how Forrest could know the chest was found. Even if someone does try to piece out the treasure on the QT, I think word would eventually reach Forrest. He has too many contacts in the art and antiques dealer communities. He's a well-known collector of all kinds of things. I'll bet he probably has standing orders with lots of dealers to contact him immediately if certain kinds of items ever come to market. Including items like the ones in the chest.



I think the real thrust of your post though is to question whether or not the chest has actually been hidden. Well I guess we have to take that on faith. Forrest's real goal here, master manipulator that he is, is to be remembered. He states that pretty clearly in TTOTC. He doesn't want to be forgotten after he dies. The treasure hunt is his legacy. Obviously not bothering to actually hide the treasure would keep the hunt going pretty much forever. That is a thought I have pondered myself. He says that the chest could never be found by accident. That is a pretty bold claim. There is hardly a square foot of the surface of the US that hasn't had human footprints on it in the past, or will in the near future. I don't see that it matters how well you hide something. Accidental discovery is always an issue, unless the chest really isn't hidden. A small, nagging doubt about the reality of the treasure is one reason I don't make trips specifically to go searching. I travel through the southwest several times a year anyway for other reasons. I search my areas on those regularly scheduled trips. That way I only have a minimal investment in the hunt, but still have about as good a chance as anyone else of finding the treasure, if it really exists.



My own personal belief is that Forrest does indeed want the treasure found, but not too quickly. Depending on the content of the autobiography he included, and other factors, he may not want the chest found until after he is long dead and his estate is settled. The poem is fiendishly complicated. Forrest had a couple of decades to work on it and make it as hard to decipher as possible. He says TTOTC has hints in it that can help, but that book is also so full of inconsistencies, and I believe intentional misdirection, that it is worse than useless. I believe Forrest is relying on the complexity of the poem and TTOTC to keep the chest hidden for at least a decade or more. Who knows, maybe he has it fixed so that sometime after his death "new information" may suddenly come to light, and help some lucky person solve the poem and find the treasure. Thus cementing his legacy in the history books.



mdavis19
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09-10-2013, 08:02 PM,
#4
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
Reply
09-10-2013, 10:20 PM,
#5
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
Ricky N



you communicated your point crystal clear, thank you for that. seems to be fast becoming a rare ability these days.



you are suggesting the possibility that the chest was never hidden or that someone may have found it and FF doesn’t know, even though he has said he has a way to know



When I first discovered this Fenn treasure hunt, I was attracted to certain facets of it, but mainly I was trusting my gut which was telling me, based on what I read and the videos I watched, that Fenn could be trusted, and yes I know he is human.



I already knew before diving in how serious I was going to be about it, and the investment I would be making.



If I thought that some of the ‘what ifs’ you propose were even somewhat possible, I would have never got my feet wet to begin with, and I certainly would not be about to go on my 4th search, spending time and money I can barely afford, since I have to travel from Ca.



One of the things I find fascinating about this whole event is that Fenn has stated one of the goals is to get people out into nature, and people have embraced that part of it whole heartedly, relegating the puzzle solving part of it to relative insignificance, going out to so many oft traveled locales and then letting FF and others know how the real treasure was being outdoors with family and friends, and FF in turn happily showcases many of these stories.



The flip side of the coin is other statements by FF, ones which I would deem of huge importance, but the clear implications of which somehow go largely ignored.



Statements like “I would urge everyone to go back to the poem in my book and be more deliberate about where they go. No one will accidentally happen upon the treasure.”



“whoever finds the treasure will have read the poem over and over, and studied it, and thought and planned and will go directly to the treasure”



Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see how he can say these things unless the whole thing can be solved first before you go out to get it.

There it was all the time, staring you in the face. Buried within the message itself is the key to decoding it. ~ S.R. Hadden
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09-11-2013, 07:46 AM,
#6
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
I like that this conversation isn't emotional and negative. It's more looking for facts and not acting like we know the truth. That's coming from probably the most emotional person who posts here lol. I just wanted to say that I don't think if someone told him that they went to the location of where it was and it wasn't there, that he wouldn't tell everyone it was already found just so the hunt would continue. I mean I don't know that for sure, but the guy I believe he is...wouldn't do that in my opinion.

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09-11-2013, 08:01 AM,
#7
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
Take a look at the precursors to the hidden treasure, specifically the bells.



I’ve always wondered why bury the them 3 ½ feet deep? He stated they were buried at that depth to be beyond the sensing range of metal detectors. Burying them that deep somewhere in the wilderness with no hints (or poems) to their locations would be overkill and almost certainly guarantee they would never be found. This is not his intent. He wants them found…eventually.



This leads me to believe he buried them in areas apt to be explored or excavated in the future. He may have picked locations that are archeologically interesting, and where using sophisticated equipment like Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR), or volunteers removing layers of overburden, would be practical. He might choose abandoned, partially explored sites, or sites known only to him. In that regard, I bet he has one buried at San Lazaro Pueblo.



The bells bring up some interesting questions about the treasure. Did he use the same hiding modus operandi as the bells? What if the clues in the poem are time sensitive? Will they still be valid 1,000 years from now? If the clues become invalid who will find the treasure, or more importantly for Mr. Fenn, who will resurrect his legacy?



Mr. Fenn, through years of experience, knows how and where to hide something that will guarantee its preservation and at the same time assured it will be discovered…eventually. Is this how he will know if the treasure has been found? He needs only to keep up-to-date on the latest archeological news to know if someone is searching his spot.



I believe he did hide the treasure and it is everything as he describes. At this point in his life the dollar value of the treasure means little to him but, like the fishing flies he ties, it is just a lure to attract enduring attention. It's the olive jar and the written legacy contained within, embellishments and all, that is important. In order for Mr. Fenn to control the future, the treasure must be found, just not today.

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09-11-2013, 02:30 PM,
#8
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
There are many excellent thoughts in this thread, and any of them could be valid. They could also be used to quit the chase, or drive oneself mad, or in some rare cases, go and try to knock on Forrest's door and demand an explanation.



Deep down, in order to continue on the chase, each one of us has to have a gut feeling about which among all of these thoughts are likely true. We can say that perhaps the treasure was never buried, we can say it was buried and already found, or something else, but you cannot go on unless you assume something positive to be true. Who wants to search for a phantom treasure?



If the hiding of the chest were a hoax, it's a negative to never be proved. Forrest will die and the chase will fade into some kind of minor legend, and some individuals will continue in the future to search fruitlessly. But no one could ever prove that Forrest did NOT hide it.



If the treasure was placed but already found and kept secret, which many are convinced has actually occurred, then Forrest is in a tough spot. He is the only one who can confirm that the secretly-found treasure has been found, but there could be a reluctant finder who will never tell. Is it possible for the treasure to be found and kept quiet, yet Forrest will not confirm that it has been found? As an example, what if someone in 2023 proves that they found the treasure in 2013 (assuming that they have the means to prove it), and Forrest is still alive at that time. How would people react to Forrest?



If Forrest dies, then either of the above two options would be equal (never hidden, or found and never told)- we may never know if one or the other were true. Forrest's legacy would remain a mystery.



And here is what really troubles me, which I have posted before without much response:



Forrest says he HAS hidden the actual treasure, AND a 79 year-old man in good shape took two trips to place that weight alone undetected, AND a child would be in a safe place when finding it, AND he laughed walking back to his parked car, BUT he could also leave his bones with the chest, AND YET no one is just going to just stumble upon it, AND STILL the chest and bones could be there for a few millenia undiscovered, BUT the poem will lead you right to it, AND THINK but don't OVERTHINK the poem, AND show it to your kids because they will get it?



Huh?? Did I just write that sentence? For all of you who know these words intimately, can you see how outrageous and contradictory these comments are when put together like that?



Tell someone who is NOT in the search that you are searching, and then read that sentence to them- they will likely tell you that you are crazy, that it's all some kind of a hoax. Then let them read the book, and afterwards point out every single thing that is wrong, changed, or misleading about the book. I think that most rational people will think that searchers are being sucked into a vortex of contradictions.



Yet there is the allure of this chase. Those who cannot turn away do not turn away, and still believe that that bronze chest is PUT SOMEWHERE THAT SOMEHOW MAKES THAT BIZARRE SENTENCE ABOVE MAKE SENSE.



So I think these things today (out of many others):



*There is a chest (it would be treachery for Forrest to have not placed it) out there and Forrest can definitively know quickly if it is there or not, but cannot tell you how (too big of a clue), and will let us know when it is found even if the finder is quiet. Once he dies, we can never know anything with certainty unless it's found and brought forward.

*The poem is fiendishly simple, not fiendishly complex. The book is fiendishly complex.

*Forrest wants the chest to be found before he dies, but as late in his life as possible.

*Forrest wants the finder to come forward and share in grand and friendly public fanfare with him.

*The treasure will be found within 3-7 years of hiding it. I even believe Forrest will steer it to be found if he feels he's near the end (although I wish he is strong until his 100's)

*The market value of the treasure is WAY more than most estimates I've seen because of elevated cultural and intrinsic value, not total value of raw contents.

*If I or anyone else finds the treasure, I would hope that an extremely wealthy person will purchase it intact in order to allow it to be re-hidden with new clues.

*If I find it I will share gold with the first person who can tell me within 24 hours where it was hidden.

*Perhaps I'm just out of my tree.



SYand42lbsHeavier,

Halogetter

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09-11-2013, 03:23 PM,
#9
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
I agree with Steph, this is a good discussion……It basically boils down to what you want to believe. If the treasure is actually there, and if initially put there has it been found….. How to go about solving the poem. Everything is conjecture.



There is a fairly large body of circumstantial evidence and I can make a convincing case either way…….It just depends on what you want to believe.



Fenn has basically created a religion as Rick alluded to. As long as you are having fun and not harming yourself or your family that’s great. I have been surprised how emotional some are and how arrogant some others are; but I have met some really nice, very intelligent folks also…..I suppose the chase is a microcosm of our society.



Rick you wrote:

<i>Thank you Goofy and Nora for your insight. I suggest we all attempt communication with the spirit of Fenn’s intentions.</i>



Thank you Rick……It was an interesting endeavor. As far as Fenn’s intentions; like everything else, it depends on what you want to believe.



When I first learned of the chase I checked into Fenn (as everyone does). Fenn is a natural born salesman, hustler (his word) and likeable scoundrel; he seemed to get into his fare share of trouble as a kid…..a Tom Sawyer type individual.



This chase has been orchestrated by a master manipulator; the question is why he did it and what is he trying to do and say……..what is the spirit of his intentions as you aptly put it……..I can make a good case he is the devil incarnate or should be knighted and considered for sainthood……It depends on what you want to believe.



He has made some really dumb statements and obvious “mistakes”. Has the master manipulator convinced all the college grads he is a genius for making stupid mistakes………he might consider this his ultimate conquest of manipulation and wonderfully pleasing, considering his aversion to formal education. I do think he made some misunderestimations (he should like that word) about the web.



As Fenn said, “<i>It doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are</i>”.

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09-11-2013, 03:25 PM,
#10
Can you hold my cup of KoolAid? Im feeling sick....
I still believe in Mr. Forrest. Whether it's Big Foot or some other hoax you can tell by body language who is telling the truth and who is full of it. I'm sure his statements could all pass the lie detector and he could still contradict himself. Maybe it's a multifaceted kind of truth thing like a pair of dice. You could think about the specific treasure, he has multiple treasures in mind and talks about one, but it may not be the one you are specifically thinking about. Yet they may all relate somehow that it's not technically misdirection. Perhaps the contradiction like any controversy is simply for the purpose to get people to think for themselves... Oh lordy.



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