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Importance of the first 2 clues
05-09-2016, 12:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-26-2017, 11:25 AM by The Count.)
#1
Importance of the first 2 clues
It seems that the first 2 clues are the ones most likely to be solved form the armchair, so I have complied a list of comments and questions of them to be studied and discussed they are complied and pasted from HOD and MW. Hopefully this will help some come closer to the correct starting point or just use it as a reference if you would like.

Reformated to better serve, thanks to all who have added quotes to this thread, look for more quotes to come.

Since WWWH is usually on the top 2 clue count any quotes with WWWH is up for discussion.

Will little Indy be put on page one?:



Dear Mr. Fenn,
You say the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order. You have also said the book holds sublte hints. Are these ‘subtle hints’ in consecutive order (in relation to how they help with clues in the poem) too? ~ Thank you, joseph
That’s right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized.f

Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman
There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f

Some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing they had been so close.

“The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f

I learn something every day from those who are in the treasure hunt.
What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue. f

Forrest, you have stated that several searchers correctly identified the first two clues in your poem. Could you tell us how many searchers to your knowledge have correctly identified the first clue correctly? Thanks. ~49 Dollars
No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

Dear Forrest,
Now that the 2014 search season has ended, can you summarize the results? Ie: is anyone close to the treasure chest? Has anyone given you a solve? Thanks, puttputt.
I know of a few searchers who have been reasonably close to the treasure puttputt, but there is no indication that they knew it. No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f

It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper.”

“If a person reads the poem over and over…and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impossible. I could go right straight to it.”

“Many searchers have thought that warm waters halt at a dam because water being released through flues near the bottom of the dam is much colder than water on the surface of the lake. I have discussed around that subject with several people in the last few days and am concerned that not all searchers are aware of what has been said. So to level the playing field to give everyone an equal chance I will say now that WWWH is not related to any dam.” ff

You should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized.f

What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue. f

Dear Forrest, which is the first clue; the first line or the line that starts with Begin it where warm waters halt? ~Carolyn
Thanks Carolyn, you guess.f

You told a reporter that there are three or four clues in the second stanza. Were you telling the truth? ~Alison R
I don’t know what it is about girls but when I say something they automatically ask if I’m lying. Shame on you Allison R. I promise you that I get more things right than most reporters. If you were here I would make you take a dose of castor oil. Besides, if I lied to the reporter what makes you think I would tell you the truth?
Sorry Alison, I’m off my soap box now. No, I was not lying but I don’t remember a reporter asking me such a question.f

Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor
Thanks for the question Ben.
If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f

Mr. Fenn: In the past when you have said that several people had figured out the first two clues and then went right past the other clues, would you say that they got lucky and just happened to go to the correct starting area, not fully understanding the poem, or would you say that they did indeed solve the first two clues by understanding the poem and clues?
Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f

You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f

“Is the map that needs to be used to discover where warm waters halt found online or in paper form? or both?” ~mdc777
C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.f

You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW
No I don’t madam, sorry. f

You’ve written an excellent poem that leads us to the location of a fantastic treasure. What do you feel is one of the main reasons it hasn’t been found yet? Thanks so much ~ jenny
Most of the searchers are very bright and make intelligent comments, either by email or on the blogs, but there seems to be more attention paid to the blaze than to the first clue. Perhaps that’s why the treasure hasn’t been found. f

If you don’t know where it is, go back to the first clue.f

We are looking into places in New Mexico and we are curious if we are in the right direction.
Go back to the poem and start with the first clue.

Our final guess is that the treasure may be along road 156 in Wyoming. Thank you for taking time out of your day to help us in our class!
You cannot solve the problem by starting in the middle of the poem. You should start with the first clue and then solve the other eight in order.

– Can you give me one quote that will inspire my readers that it is possible to find your treasure? Something to motivate them? Something to tease them.
FF: Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.

– How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)
FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

Dear Forrest,
What’s more important in solving the search, a greater knowledge (“knowlege”) of Toponymy or Geography? ~Chris
I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f
Reply
05-09-2016, 01:39 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-09-2016, 01:41 AM by ThrillChaser.)
#2
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
Nice post. Reformatting some of your select quotes below and adding one of my own to the bottom.

“The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f

What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue. f

No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

Thanks, puttputt.
I know of a few searchers who have been reasonably close to the treasure puttputt, but there is no indication that they knew it. No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f


“If a person reads the poem over and over…and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impossible. I could go right straight to it.”

You should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized.f

Dear Forrest, which is the first clue; the first line or the line that starts with Begin it where warm waters halt? ~Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn, you guess.f

If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f

Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f

Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.

So he does actually say to start at the first clue. He just doesn't tell you which clue is the first. I wonder if the answer to "which clue is the first clue?" is "it depends." I think I should also collect mentions of "starting point," because I believe he's used that in at least a couple different places.

Also, probably mentioned before, but I believe that last quote is the only time he's actually used "solved." He's (ostensibly) answered questions that ask about "solved" but he doesn't use the word in the affirmative a lot.

[EDIT: noted loco's response also has a 'solved' quote where he implies solving doesn't necessarily mean understanding the solution, so that's a dead end]
Reply
05-09-2016, 05:41 AM,
#3
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
I wonder who has solved 4 clues?

I also wonder why Forrest doesn't know whether they have solved 4 clues?

My money is on someone sending f a photograph of something important but with little explanation to go with it
Reply
05-09-2016, 08:33 AM,
#4
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
One quote by itself has less ability to lead one to the correct location hopefully with this collective qoute thread some will see things they haven't before. Thanks goes out to all who add to this list.
Reply
05-09-2016, 09:03 AM,
#5
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
(05-09-2016, 08:33 AM)The Count Wrote: One quote by itself has less ability to lead one to the correct location hopefully with this collective qoute thread some will see things they haven't before. Thanks goes out to all who add to this list.

Count, I have used this technique as well and I strongly believe this approach will reveal something interesting. There is something there that is very revealing but is set up in such a way that it is carefully masked. Time spent in deep thought in this area may be fruitful but it is unlikely to be obvious until one physically arrives at clue 9. This could be the difference between correctly identifying clue 9 or not. Who knows, it might even explain how some who actually have gotten so close but failed to retreive on the initial attempt.

Something to consider...
Reply
05-12-2016, 11:35 PM,
#6
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
(05-09-2016, 09:03 AM)The Wolf Wrote:
(05-09-2016, 08:33 AM)The Count Wrote: One quote by itself has less ability to lead one to the correct location hopefully with this collective qoute thread some will see things they haven't before. Thanks goes out to all who add to this list.

Count, I have used this technique as well and I strongly believe this approach will reveal something interesting. There is something there that is very revealing but is set up in such a way that it is carefully masked. Time spent in deep thought in this area may be fruitful but it is unlikely to be obvious until one physically arrives at clue 9. This could be the difference between correctly identifying clue 9 or not. Who knows, it might even explain how some who actually have gotten so close but failed to retreive on the initial attempt.

Something to consider...
I believe it's comments like this is way so many have gotten the first 2 clues correct. Logic can be used in a situation like this to help identify what so me by have in the past. I would agree that it may take all 9 to know if you have correctly identified the first 2. This also seem to be one of the best ways to feel you are on the correct path without follow a hunch. There are things I will point out over time but I would like if others might give there take if anything can be logically deduced.
Reply
05-13-2016, 06:59 AM,
#7
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
If I may be so bold as to pick a few lines from FF that stand out to me, and say why:

- "I learn something every day from those who are in the treasure hunt"
There is a lot of useless information put out there...people are overcomplicating things or missing a link...if ff wasn't aware of it prior to chase .... it's not relevant.

- "Searchers have routinely .... Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem...."
Hmm, this says to me you not only have know where to start..but WHY, what could that "WHY" mean? Why would you have to know WHY you're there other than the chest?
If you're 100% in the right place (confirmed by FF statement above) what could change if you don't know how it's CONNECTED to the chase?
Transmogrifying what he said initially...."Some searchers have read the poem, got to the starting point 'playing a hunch' and thereby didnt know it's connection so could not correctly progress" Weird..

And finally...linked to the paragraph above
"You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?"

What info....story...mindset......picture.....item....Ingredients do you need before you begin to begin?
What 'map' (story...mindset......picture.....item...Ingredients ) do you need to apply to be aware of clues 1 connection to the poem (go there with confidence)

Is this what is hidden in Stanza 1, does it give you the area..AND the why???

This is the heart of the chase........All I do know is that finding this info (key) is my start point.
Reply
05-21-2016, 04:44 PM,
#8
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
(05-13-2016, 06:59 AM)Puzzle X Wrote: If I may be so bold as to pick a few lines from FF that stand out to me, and say why:

- "I learn something every day from those who are in the treasure hunt"
There is a lot of useless information put out there...people are overcomplicating things or missing a link...if ff wasn't aware of it prior to chase .... it's not relevant.

- "Searchers have routinely .... Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem...."
Hmm, this says to me you not only have know where to start..but WHY, what could that "WHY" mean? Why would you have to know WHY you're there other than the chest?
If you're 100% in the right place (confirmed by FF statement above) what could change if you don't know how it's CONNECTED to the chase?
Transmogrifying what he said initially...."Some searchers have read the poem, got to the starting point 'playing a hunch' and thereby didnt know it's connection so could not correctly progress" Weird..

And finally...linked to the paragraph above
"You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?"

What info....story...mindset......picture.....item....Ingredients do you need before you begin to begin?
What 'map' (story...mindset......picture.....item...Ingredients ) do you need to apply to be aware of clues 1 connection to the poem (go there with confidence)

Is this what is hidden in Stanza 1, does it give you the area..AND the why???

This is the heart of the chase........All I do know is that finding this info (key) is my start point.
To know why you must be there? I believe that is a great questions, like there is a greater reason to be at the starting place then for it just to be one of the first clues. My thinking is starting to lead me to say, what is going to make a very difficult puzzle but not impossible puzzle? Maybe that helps one to understand why you are there other then the chest.
Reply
05-21-2016, 04:50 PM,
#9
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
IMO you don't use anything from stanza one till you get to the blaze.
Reply
05-21-2016, 05:15 PM,
#10
RE: Importance of the first 2 clues
(05-21-2016, 04:50 PM)Buddy Allen Wrote: IMO you don't use anything from stanza one till you get to the blaze.
Care to elaborate?
Reply


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