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Lets Assume. ..
11-13-2013, 11:18 AM,
Lets Assume. ..

<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from James Perotti on November 13, 2013, 11:13 am</b>

Hi SidnCharley, Another thought, I used the poem to make a map, that lead to my search area, using the keys mentioned above, with no other input. So I'll have say that at least it's possible, with just the poem, and knowing nothing else.

Excellent! Going further, did the poem lead you to a general area or a pretty precise spot?

My hope is that, when solved correctly, the poem will yield an exact, unambiguous location. Then you use the map to get there!
11-13-2013, 11:25 AM,
Lets Assume. ..

<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from Desertphile on November 13, 2013, 8:52 am</b>
<div class="bbcode_quote">
<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from John Brown on November 13, 2013, 8:03 am</b>
<div class="bbcode_quote">
<div class="bbcode_quote_head">Quote:
<b>Quote from mdc777 on November 12, 2013, 11:17 pm</b>

The clues in the poem lead you straight to the treasure IF you know where to start. (see the starting point thread) {....}


This is certainly not a position that I agree with.</div>

If you are correct, how does one know where to start?</div>

I started with a vague but explicit notion of my personal cost function. It was vague in the sense that I didn't try to write down some formal nonsense about the expected cost of recovering the chest. It was explicit in that I discussed it with my wife and daughter and we agreed that it made no sense for us to search further north than southern CO. This was for two reasons. (1)Fenn said he put it in the mountains north of SF. We wanted the language to be "simple" in the sense that if he said "in the mountains north of SF" he was using the language as it is normally used. He didn't also mean "in the mountains north of Denver" but just failed to mention it. My position is that if it is that far north then more than likely the poem isn't crackable without additional information because it is too disingenuous. Of course, in the mean time he's been providing additional information and there is all that stuff in the book about Yellowstone.

(2)Searching north of southern CO is prohibitively expensive for me. If it is north of some ill-defined line in southern Colorado I have zero chance of ever finding it. I won't entertain solutions up there. I won't look up there. Etc. I believe that it takes a large amount of research in libraries and with feet on the ground and that the person who finds it will have worked very very hard to do it. Fenn himself said that whoever finds it will have worked very hard to do so. Of course, that doesn't imply at all that doing a bunch of work will give you the chest. You might be doing the wrong work. Wasted work, like false confidence, will not pop! the chest into one's spot. The chest is sitting somewhere fully indifferent to the number of people that are trying to find it. We started by considering anywhere in NM that could reasonably be described as in the mountains north of SF and considered the rivers. We settled on our first general area because it seemed to find the greatest support in the poem and book but it's very very hard to know that one is not fooling one's self.
11-13-2013, 12:00 PM,
Lets Assume. ..
I believe in the key concept. For me, the key is the synonyms. Forrest makes reference to words having different meanings in the first few chapters of the book. That was a huge clue for me. So I started looking up every word that I thought might mean something different. I have found some interesting things by doing that. Not only words in the poem, but words in the book as well. I have also compared the poem to the stories in the book and have found some profound similarities. By using that method, I believe I have figured out what the blaze is. I just haven't figured out where to find it.

In the first few chapters, Forrest also talks about bending words a little, non-fiction is true only 85% of the time and that he learned that you always had to tell the truth but you didn't always have to tell the WHOLE truth. That speaks volumes to me.

I know that Forrest said that all you need is the poem. I believe that to be true however, it's highly likely that it would take someone a VERY long time to search every single canyon there is in the 4 states that are left, given that there many wwh. It is my opinion that TTOTC is my study guide, so to speak, of where to find answers to the many questions that arise from the poem. That's just my "take" on all of this.

Happy Hunting Everyone!
11-13-2013, 12:34 PM,
Lets Assume. ..
In fact, I just looked at the inside cover of TTOTC and it says "Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest"....

So that just solidified my thoughts. For me, anyway.
11-13-2013, 12:52 PM,
Lets Assume. ..
@ SidnCharley, Buy using the keys, the poem gave me the names of two locations North of Santa Fe. Buy drawing lines from those two spots, (my imagination part) I got got the names of a couple other places.
11-13-2013, 01:20 PM,
Lets Assume. ..
As suggested in the missive above, and, moreover by some of the things Fenn has said, I’m a poem “purist:” all you need is the poem. In addition, Fenn has said that he’s never given a clue (outside the poem) that would help. Without the book, we wouldn’t even have ‘in the mountains North of Santa Fe.’”That leaves the character above with the entire Earth to wander in search of the treasure.

He/she only has two things to rely upon to help him/her:

1. the “instructions” their grandfather’s handed them, and

2. their collected knowledge of their grandfather and his odd behavior.

To me, that means:

1. While the clues are in the poem, and the hints are in the book, the key is in the man. Know your grandfather and you know the treasure.

2. WWWH is not only the first clue, it is, by an order of magnitude, the most important clue.

3. The location, on a map or by reference, of WWWH is glaringly obvious. (Your grandfather knowing that without it being glaringly obvious, you’d have to wander the Earth for the rest of your days.)

4. According to Fenn, a small number of searchers have pinpointed the first (and second) clue, and then they walked right past the treasure chest.

Thus, it was glaringly obvious to them what the man meant when he said, “Begin it where the warm waters halt, and take it in the canyon down…”

The question I’d like to ask one or more of them that located the first clue: “How much of what was in the book, other than the poem, did you use to help you determine where the warm waters halted?”

Apparently, we should be looking at the Forrest, and not the trees.

Toby Michael Younis
11-13-2013, 03:44 PM,
Lets Assume. ..
tyounis, I totally agree that the Poem is pure (having said it before on this forum AND whenever I correspond with Mr. Fenn). I am also in agreement that the finder of the treasure will have to learn/study as much as they can about Forrest to help find/unlock clues in the Poem, books and interviews.

It is no coincidence (in my opinion) that Forrest has used certain words or poems in his interviews. I personally believe he is truly enjoying doing that too! In addition, I believe the key may be found in the first few sections of TTOTC, just as a writer of a mystery novel or a director of a mystery show or movie will "plant" the seeds of the solution so early.

Regarding WWWH, Forrest had to have chosen a "not to be confused with anything else location" no matter how large of an area you had to search ("The World"). The people who correctly identify it (as did the few people who Forrest mentions) must have done alot of research combined with a "sprinkling" of intuition in order for them to know how and what to research.
11-13-2013, 03:48 PM,
Lets Assume. ..
Toby you wrote: “<i>Apparently, we should be looking at the Forrest, and not the trees.</i>” Interesting way of putting it and a good thought.

How does one get to know a person that says “<i>It doesn’t matter who you are it only matters who they think you are</i>”?

Many folks here could tell you where his favorite place to eat is and most probably what he would order. We all know of his love for Yellowstone and Wyoming. We know of his attachment to New Mexico, its heritage and fascination with collecting Native American artifacts. We know a lot about Fenn’s likes and dislikes. Many of us could tell you what he would do or say in many circumstances; but does that tell us anything……..We are trying to apply “normal” behavior to a very abnormal act (hiding the chest). Sometimes I think the more I know about him the more wild goose chases I end up on.

Fenn is above all a marketing genius……a horse trader and self proclaimed hustler. He made his money by buying stuff and convincing someone to pay more for it than he did.

One might think the obvious location of the chest is in New Mexico or Wyoming based on what we know about him………But does the attachment to those places have anything to do with where a hustler would hide a chest of gold.

I can hear him now……..<i>It doesn’t matter where it is, it only matters where they think it is</i>.

11-13-2013, 04:00 PM,
Lets Assume. ..
@ SidnCharley, Another thought, I just realized that the two keys I used on the poem, were both based on knowing what State and area to look in, to start, and the keys were custom designed to the area. So without some external information, I could only take the poem at face value.
11-13-2013, 04:24 PM,
Lets Assume. ..
GOG: I think an inordinate weight has been given his "non-clue" statement. Didn't you eke out an admission from him finally that "not in Utah or Idaho" were in fact useful information? It was particularly useful for those who were searching in those states. Similarly the "not in a potty" and "not in a grave yard" statements would have been useful for searchers focusing on outhouses and cemeteries. Those clues would have been useless for those of us who weren't searching in those places but very useful for those who were.

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