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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
08-28-2017, 08:20 PM,
#21
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
I believe understanding the definition of what a clue is maybe helpful, but in order to expedite my point; a clue is just a piece of information or evidence used in the detection of a crime or solving a mystery. But it is just that, evidence, therefore one just has to unravel or figure out what the clue means in order to solve the crime and or mystery. So how can a hint in the book help you first solve or figure out what the words in the poem mean without first understand or unraveling the clue, it's backwards, of course in my opinion. I believe that attempting to identify what the potential subtle hints are in the book prior to figuring out what the clues mean is just expensive folly, and is why I believe that this discussion will be entertaining.

So don't go getting your panties in a wad because of someone who has a difference of opinion.
Reply
08-28-2017, 08:21 PM,
#22
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
FD, so with that logic your saying all hints are then only hinting at the answer to WWWH.

Sorry I disagree.
In this scenario (since we are thinking to hard about hints vs clues) we need to describe the two in a simpler way.

A clue is an answer. A hint is a suggestion. The hints help solve the clue.
Clue (in the form of a riddle to make it simple)= I Fly But Have No Wings I Cry But Have No Eyes I See The Sky Get Dark And I See When The Sun Comes Up What Am I?

The answer is : a cloud

A hint would be : "look up"

A hint could be anywhere and could help with any clue.
Reply
08-28-2017, 08:26 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2017, 08:54 PM by fundamental design.)
#23
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 07:54 PM)Indy Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 07:31 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 06:38 PM)LuckyLove Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: .......The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh.....

Is this confirmed by Fenn? Or is it personal/popular opinion? Not saying there are or aren't hints for wwwh just wondering what you're basing this on. Usually people cite at least one unarguably factual source that supports their claim. Without anything that's 100% concrete to support the claim it's nothing more than an opinion. Basing the belief that there's a hint to wwwh in the book or elsewhere based on a personal/popular interpretation of statements or based on personal/popular thought that leads one to interpret wwwh any certain way due to perceived but unconfirmed hint(s) is confirmation bias.

The closest he's come to addressing this, as far as I'm aware, was posted earlier by The Count. But, Fenn'ss answer doesn't confirm that there's a hint to wwwh anywhere in the book. Just that there's hints in the book.

I'd like to know what, exactly, you're basing the above quoted statement on? If it's based on fact that's great and it would be greatly appreciated if you shared the fact(s).

Just basing it on logic. We have to take into account what f tells us what a clue does for a searcher and what a hint does for us. They are different. A clue gets one closer to the tc. A hint helps with the clues. I paraphrased that as I don't readily know where f's quote of those descriptions are.

And then we recently had f's lost words on what the first clue is...wwwh. Lastly, the clues are consecutive. Use logic and you see what I said. A hint in ttotc can't get you closer to the tc than the first clue (wwwh). ***If a hint did get one closer, then by f's definition it can't be a hint...it's a clue***. Same thing if there's a hint in the poem like the first stanza. The first stanza literally has the word "hint" in it. "Begin" in the second stanza has been proven by f to mean begin.

In short, if we know where the first clue is and the clues are consecutive then any hint can't help after clue 1. Hints have to help before then.

(08-28-2017, 07:13 PM)N. Means Wrote: hmmmm... there are 7500 +/- words in the "My War For Me" chapter in TTOTC, and that is only 30 of the 147 pages contained within. It would be very difficult, if not nearly impossible, to identify what one might consider a very subtle hint within those thousands of words without unintentionally interposing their individual bias or interpretation of the poem upon these presumed hints. But by all means please do go ahead and confirm away, I'll get the popcorn and settle in.

Hmmm... just got an alert from my anti virus that this website was phishing for my URL. I wonder why?

Then you should quit now. Where in the OP did I say anything about confirming any hint?

This is very flawed logic. A hint can help after clue #1 because a hint only helps you solve a clue and there can be hints for clues one through nine. A hint about the blaze wouldn't get you closer to the treasure until you solve the clues necessary to be at the blaze and can use the hint to solve the blaze clue.

If a hint helps solve clue 3 (for this example hob) then of course that gets you closer to the tc than you were back at clue 2 without the use of this hint you speak of.

(08-28-2017, 08:00 PM)crazyfamily Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 07:54 PM)Indy Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 07:31 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 06:38 PM)LuckyLove Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: .......The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh.....

Is this confirmed by Fenn? Or is it personal/popular opinion? Not saying there are or aren't hints for wwwh just wondering what you're basing this on. Usually people cite at least one unarguably factual source that supports their claim. Without anything that's 100% concrete to support the claim it's nothing more than an opinion. Basing the belief that there's a hint to wwwh in the book or elsewhere based on a personal/popular interpretation of statements or based on personal/popular thought that leads one to interpret wwwh any certain way due to perceived but unconfirmed hint(s) is confirmation bias.

The closest he's come to addressing this, as far as I'm aware, was posted earlier by The Count. But, Fenn'ss answer doesn't confirm that there's a hint to wwwh anywhere in the book. Just that there's hints in the book.

I'd like to know what, exactly, you're basing the above quoted statement on? If it's based on fact that's great and it would be greatly appreciated if you shared the fact(s).

Just basing it on logic. We have to take into account what f tells us what a clue does for a searcher and what a hint does for us. They are different. A clue gets one closer to the tc. A hint helps with the clues. I paraphrased that as I don't readily know where f's quote of those descriptions are.

And then we recently had f's lost words on what the first clue is...wwwh. Lastly, the clues are consecutive. Use logic and you see what I said. A hint in ttotc can't get you closer to the tc than the first clue (wwwh). ***If a hint did get one closer, then by f's definition it can't be a hint...it's a clue***. Same thing if there's a hint in the poem like the first stanza. The first stanza literally has the word "hint" in it. "Begin" in the second stanza has been proven by f to mean begin.

In short, if we know where the first clue is and the clues are consecutive then any hint can't help after clue 1. Hints have to help before then.

(08-28-2017, 07:13 PM)N. Means Wrote: hmmmm... there are 7500 +/- words in the "My War For Me" chapter in TTOTC, and that is only 30 of the 147 pages contained within. It would be very difficult, if not nearly impossible, to identify what one might consider a very subtle hint within those thousands of words without unintentionally interposing their individual bias or interpretation of the poem upon these presumed hints. But by all means please do go ahead and confirm away, I'll get the popcorn and settle in.

Hmmm... just got an alert from my anti virus that this website was phishing for my URL. I wonder why?

Then you should quit now. Where in the OP did I say anything about confirming any hint?

This is very flawed logic. A hint can help after clue #1 because a hint only helps you solve a clue and there can be hints for clues one through nine. A hint about the blaze wouldn't get you closer to the treasure until you solve the clues necessary to be at the blaze and can use the hint to solve the blaze clue.

In my magnanimous opinion, Forrest told us how to solve the poem by reading the book straight through and reading the poem 6, 8, 10 times, then reading the book again looking for hints. Essentially he was telling us to memorize the poem and the book. When you've done this, the hints will present themselves when you see them.



razyFamily

And f said this is what serious searchers should be doing.

(08-28-2017, 08:14 PM)SierraCharlie Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 08:00 PM)crazyfamily Wrote: In my magnanimous opinion, Forrest told us how to solve the poem by reading the book straight through and reading the poem 6, 8, 10 times, then reading the book again looking for hints. Essentially he was telling us to memorize the poem and the book. When you've done this, the hints will present themselves when you see them.

razyFamily

Plus search maps of areas of possible interest to align them to. Then do BOTG recon to confirm. The correct General area should start aligning with the hints/clues from the poem, book, and map. If it doesnt, backup and correct, if it does then keep going deeper in that area. Search safe.

~SC

Exactly!

(08-28-2017, 08:20 PM)N. Means Wrote: I believe understanding the definition of what a clue is maybe helpful, but in order to expedite my point; a clue is just a piece of information or evidence used in the detection of a crime or solving a mystery. But it is just that, evidence, therefore one just has to unravel or figure out what the clue means in order to solve the crime and or mystery. So how can a hint in the book help you first solve or figure out what the words in the poem mean without first understand or unraveling the clue, it's backwards, of course in my opinion. I believe that attempting to identify what the potential subtle hints are in the book prior to figuring out what the clues mean is just expensive folly, and is why I believe that this discussion will be entertaining.

So don't go getting your panties in a wad because of someone who has a difference of opinion.
I never have a problem with people having a different opinion than my own. It either stands up to scrutiny or it doesn't. I'd stick to a definition of a clue in the Chase from the guy that architected the Chase- f. He has defined what a clue does for us.

You asked how a hint in the book can help you first solve or figure out what the words in the poem mean without first understanding or unraveling the clue. That's easy, probably the few hints are easier to figure out than figuring out any of the clues. Seems fair. And I don't need the hints to help me first solve what the words in the poem mean. One way to have it work is that the couple of hints each provide like 4 or 5 geographical areas on the treasure map and those specific locations only cross like an X in one place.
Reply
08-28-2017, 08:51 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2017, 09:03 PM by fundamental design.)
#24
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 08:21 PM)Itchy Ideas Wrote: FD, so with that logic your saying all hints are then only hinting at the answer to WWWH.

Sorry I disagree.
In this scenario (since we are thinking to hard about hints vs clues) we need to describe the two in a simpler way.

A clue is an answer. A hint is a suggestion. The hints help solve the clue.
Clue (in the form of a riddle to make it simple)= I Fly But Have No Wings I Cry But Have No Eyes I See The Sky Get Dark And I See When The Sun Comes Up What Am I?

The answer is : a cloud

A hint would be : "look up"

A hint could be anywhere and could help with any clue.

No, we don't need to describe the two in a simpler way. Like I said before, I'd stick with f's descriptions of the two.

And yes I'm saying the couple of hints would both lead the searcher to the correct wwwh. Why? Because two hints used on the same clue can make an X on a map. You can't do that if hints are used separately on separate clues. That's just being logical. Plus, not only do you have to determine what the hint answer is but you have to figure out what clue it goes to. And you did a runaround on what f's definition of what a clue is. Nothing else in the text of ttotc or the poem can get you closer to the tc than clue 1 does...if it does it's a clue- by definition.

(08-28-2017, 08:47 PM)njfl Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: I thought I might as well corner the market on the importance of the hints. I know many searchers try to figure out the hints and there's like one that doesn't believe it's worth looking for them in ttotc. So, I'm not saying I'm the first to look for them or the first to say they are important. I'm just gonna bring the search for them into the forefront from here on out by bumping this thread to the top everyday. I don't believe that will be viewed as a trollish move.

This is where the Chase is as of now. All have heard what the first clue is from f himself. The wwwh we are looking for is one of many. The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh from here on out.....

Isn't this post a little redundant? 100,000 searchers, 7 years, treasure not found yet and you just said you know many searchers try to figure out the hints. It's your OPINION that hints are important right? It's your OPINION that hints will shine right? Because no where do I see this as a fact. Fenn said the hints where subtle and not put there to help anyone. He said no one needs the book just the poem and the right map. If you intend to talk about this every day you may end up talking to yourself.

You just put yourself in the non-serious searcher club according to f. How's it feel? You did that all by yourself. Is that all f said or are you leaving a few things out that have already been posted on this thread?

And you might want to reread my OP. I just said I was gonna bump this thread everyday to keep it in the forefront for all the searchers. I'm not compelled to add to it. Comprehension goes a long ways.
Reply
08-28-2017, 09:07 PM,
#25
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 09:03 PM)njfl Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 08:51 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 08:21 PM)Itchy Ideas Wrote: FD, so with that logic your saying all hints are then only hinting at the answer to WWWH.

Sorry I disagree.
In this scenario (since we are thinking to hard about hints vs clues) we need to describe the two in a simpler way.

A clue is an answer. A hint is a suggestion. The hints help solve the clue.
Clue (in the form of a riddle to make it simple)= I Fly But Have No Wings I Cry But Have No Eyes I See The Sky Get Dark And I See When The Sun Comes Up What Am I?

The answer is : a cloud

A hint would be : "look up"

A hint could be anywhere and could help with any clue.

No, we don't need to describe the two in a simpler way. Like I said before, I'd stick with f's descriptions of the two.

And yes I'm saying the couple of hints would both lead the searcher to the correct wwwh. Why? Because two hints used on the same clue can make an X on a map. You can't do that if hints are used separately on separate clues. That's just being logical. Plus, not only do you have to determine what the hint answer is but you have to figure out what clue it goes to. And you did a runaround on what f's definition of what a clue is. Nothing else in the text of ttotc or the poem can get you closer to the tc than clue 1 does...if it does it's a clue- by definition.

(08-28-2017, 08:47 PM)njfl Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: I thought I might as well corner the market on the importance of the hints. I know many searchers try to figure out the hints and there's like one that doesn't believe it's worth looking for them in ttotc. So, I'm not saying I'm the first to look for them or the first to say they are important. I'm just gonna bring the search for them into the forefront from here on out by bumping this thread to the top everyday. I don't believe that will be viewed as a trollish move.

This is where the Chase is as of now. All have heard what the first clue is from f himself. The wwwh we are looking for is one of many. The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh from here on out.....

Isn't this post a little redundant? 100,000 searchers, 7 years, treasure not found yet and you just said you know many searchers try to figure out the hints. It's your OPINION that hints are important right? It's your OPINION that hints will shine right? Because no where do I see this as a fact. Fenn said the hints where subtle and not put there to help anyone. He said no one needs the book just the poem and the right map. If you intend to talk about this every day you may end up talking to yourself.

You just put yourself in the non-serious searcher club. How's it feel?

Great actually. Like I said, the only thing that counts in this game is the possession of the treasure chest, pictures and Fenn's official announcement. Nothing else matters. You have nothing to show for your serious research. How does it feel?

It feels great cause I totally disagree with your point. That's not the only thing that matters in the Chase. The people that have found all kinds of important, amazing and fun things in their lives from participating in the Chase are many steps ahead of you with your limited view on the subject.
Reply
08-28-2017, 09:24 PM,
#26
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 09:10 PM)njfl Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 09:07 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 09:03 PM)njfl Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 08:51 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 08:21 PM)Itchy Ideas Wrote: FD, so with that logic your saying all hints are then only hinting at the answer to WWWH.

Sorry I disagree.
In this scenario (since we are thinking to hard about hints vs clues) we need to describe the two in a simpler way.

A clue is an answer. A hint is a suggestion. The hints help solve the clue.
Clue (in the form of a riddle to make it simple)= I Fly But Have No Wings I Cry But Have No Eyes I See The Sky Get Dark And I See When The Sun Comes Up What Am I?

The answer is : a cloud

A hint would be : "look up"

A hint could be anywhere and could help with any clue.

No, we don't need to describe the two in a simpler way. Like I said before, I'd stick with f's descriptions of the two.

And yes I'm saying the couple of hints would both lead the searcher to the correct wwwh. Why? Because two hints used on the same clue can make an X on a map. You can't do that if hints are used separately on separate clues. That's just being logical. Plus, not only do you have to determine what the hint answer is but you have to figure out what clue it goes to. And you did a runaround on what f's definition of what a clue is. Nothing else in the text of ttotc or the poem can get you closer to the tc than clue 1 does...if it does it's a clue- by definition.

(08-28-2017, 08:47 PM)njfl Wrote: Isn't this post a little redundant? 100,000 searchers, 7 years, treasure not found yet and you just said you know many searchers try to figure out the hints. It's your OPINION that hints are important right? It's your OPINION that hints will shine right? Because no where do I see this as a fact. Fenn said the hints where subtle and not put there to help anyone. He said no one needs the book just the poem and the right map. If you intend to talk about this every day you may end up talking to yourself.

You just put yourself in the non-serious searcher club. How's it feel?

Great actually. Like I said, the only thing that counts in this game is the possession of the treasure chest, pictures and Fenn's official announcement. Nothing else matters. You have nothing to show for your serious research. How does it feel?

It feels great cause I totally disagree with your point. That's not the only thing that matters in the Chase. The people that have found all kinds of important, amazing and fun things in their lives from participating in the Chase are many steps ahead of you with your limited view on the subject.

You just defined a non-serious searcher. Welcome to the club.

Not according to f or anyone else other than you.
Reply
08-28-2017, 09:40 PM,
#27
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 08:51 PM)fundamental design Wrote: No, we don't need to describe the two in a simpler way. Like I said before, I'd stick with f's descriptions of the two.

And yes I'm saying the couple of hints would both lead the searcher to the correct wwwh. Why? Because two hints used on the same clue can make an X on a map. You can't do that if hints are used separately on separate clues. That's just being logical. Plus, not only do you have to determine what the hint answer is but you have to figure out what clue it goes to. And you did a runaround on what f's definition of what a clue is. Nothing else in the text of ttotc or the poem can get you closer to the tc than clue 1 does...if it does it's a clue- by definition.

What your explaining is that all hints only hint at WWWH if a hint can not get you closer to the treasure. Technically, there's no such thing as a hint then since those hints would then get to closer to the treasure by getting you closer to the first clue (WWWH).

What's this talk about "because two hints used on the same clue can make an X on the map"? Why does a clue need two hints? Why must there be an X on the map? A hint suggests a clue. It doesn't answer the clue. You won't know the answer of the clue until the entire series of clues are directed to an exact location.
The hints can be separated and used on separate clues because the hints do not answer the clue. They suggest the answer to a clue. Two hints will not need to put an X on a map.

And when you say "Plus, not only do you have to determine what the hint answer is but you have to figure out what clue it goes to", that is exactly the point. Why is that not allowed in your train of thought? Just curious as of why you think this isn't allowed, I may have missed something.
Reply
08-28-2017, 09:43 PM,
#28
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: I thought I might as well corner the market on the importance of the hints. I know many searchers try to figure out the hints and there's like one that doesn't believe it's worth looking for them in ttotc. So, I'm not saying I'm the first to look for them or the first to say they are important. I'm just gonna bring the search for them into the forefront from here on out by bumping this thread to the top everyday. I don't believe that will be viewed as a trollish move.

This is where the Chase is as of now. All have heard what the first clue is from f himself. The wwwh we are looking for is one of many. The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh from here on out.....
So then to get back to your OP, why don't you go first and tell us all what you think are the two subtle hints, that you hint at, that help you identify the correct wwwh or those hints to clues that may form an X on the map. I mean isn't that what this thread is about, or are you just asking others to tell you what they think are the subtle hints to help confirm your thoughts.
Reply
08-28-2017, 10:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2017, 10:25 PM by fundamental design.)
#29
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 09:40 PM)Itchy Ideas Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 08:51 PM)fundamental design Wrote: No, we don't need to describe the two in a simpler way. Like I said before, I'd stick with f's descriptions of the two.

And yes I'm saying the couple of hints would both lead the searcher to the correct wwwh. Why? Because two hints used on the same clue can make an X on a map. You can't do that if hints are used separately on separate clues. That's just being logical. Plus, not only do you have to determine what the hint answer is but you have to figure out what clue it goes to. And you did a runaround on what f's definition of what a clue is. Nothing else in the text of ttotc or the poem can get you closer to the tc than clue 1 does...if it does it's a clue- by definition.

What your explaining is that all hints only hint at WWWH if a hint can not get you closer to the treasure. Technically, there's no such thing as a hint then since those hints would then get to closer to the treasure by getting you closer to the first clue (WWWH).

What's this talk about "because two hints used on the same clue can make an X on the map"? Why does a clue need two hints? Why must there be an X on the map? A hint suggests a clue. It doesn't answer the clue. You won't know the answer of the clue until the entire series of clues are directed to an exact location.
The hints can be separated and used on separate clues because the hints do not answer the clue. They suggest the answer to a clue. Two hints will not need to put an X on a map.

And when you say "Plus, not only do you have to determine what the hint answer is but you have to figure out what clue it goes to", that is exactly the point. Why is that not allowed in your train of thought? Just curious as of why you think this isn't allowed, I may have missed something.

It may be hard to answer all of your questions cause you have so many. It's allowed under f's definitions of how the Chase is set up to have hints help before clue 1. Why? Because hints aren't the same as clues. It's the definition of a clue that you are not focusing on but should. A hint is obviously not defined the same as a clue. So, therefore a hint can't do the same thing as a clue.

Your second point- I guess you don't need to nail down the first clue. I never said a clue needs two hints. Never said there needs to be an X on the map. I just said that's a way it could work if the hints help get a searcher the correct wwwh.

Your last point- It's not allowed because of f's definition of what a clue is. My claim tells you which clue the hints help cause it can only be one clue...the first one. I'm backing that up with f's definition of what a clue does for a searcher. I mean, you guys can all give us an example (even a made up example) of what you think one of the hints are and which clue it supports to test your theory......
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08-28-2017, 10:26 PM,
#30
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
[Image: tumblr_ngebhuAt8d1qjgyvoo1_500.gif]
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