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THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
08-28-2017, 10:35 PM,
#31
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 09:43 PM)N. Means Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: I thought I might as well corner the market on the importance of the hints. I know many searchers try to figure out the hints and there's like one that doesn't believe it's worth looking for them in ttotc. So, I'm not saying I'm the first to look for them or the first to say they are important. I'm just gonna bring the search for them into the forefront from here on out by bumping this thread to the top everyday. I don't believe that will be viewed as a trollish move.

This is where the Chase is as of now. All have heard what the first clue is from f himself. The wwwh we are looking for is one of many. The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh from here on out.....
So then to get back to your OP, why don't you go first and tell us all what you think are the two subtle hints, that you hint at, that help you identify the correct wwwh or those hints to clues that may form an X on the map. I mean isn't that what this thread is about, or are you just asking others to tell you what they think are the subtle hints to help confirm your thoughts.

This thread isn't about either of your two accounts. It's about what I wrote in the OP. That I think the hints are going to be invaluable in cracking the nut that is the first clue and bringing that angle to the forefront instead of blaze talk or other back burner details. I'm not saying, and never said, that my claim is correct. But, it's fun to discuss the what ifs and I think it's wise to focus on the hints. So, I cornered that market. I done took it.
I think that will do the trick!
Reply
08-28-2017, 10:42 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2017, 10:47 PM by fundamental design.)
#32
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 10:37 PM)RedneckExpress Wrote: I think all y'all are making this clue-vs-hint thing waaaaay too complicated and are splitting hares.

I just look for hints and clues in my research to help me solve the overall case and see the big picture of this gigantic puzzle. It's already difficult enough, keep it simple, kids.

Cheers,
RedEx

I agree with you Reddy, but I'd say this is the easier way. A lot easier than the earlier post that complained about all the words in My War For Me and trying to find a subtle hint in it. Well, it's probably 160 times harder to find the tc from just using the clues in the poem.

I prefer to just follow f's recipe for serious searchers and that's what this thread is about. I think f's recipe is the easiest way. So in a way, we don't get or need to judge what's more complicated. F has already told us.

I will say I think the few hints are non subjective and that's how it makes it easier to go along the route of understanding the hints. The first clue is subjective without the hints in my opinion!
I think that will do the trick!
Reply
08-28-2017, 10:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-28-2017, 10:52 PM by N. Means.)
#33
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 09:55 PM)resa Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 08:07 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 07:49 PM)resa Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 07:31 PM)fundamental design Wrote: In short, if we know where the first clue is and the clues are consecutive then any hint can't help after clue 1. Hints have to help before then.

How is that logical? According to ff, hints are sprinkled throughout his book, but not in any particular order. Why assume he didn't do the same with his poem? Just because the clues are consecutive and contiguous doesn't mean the hints are.

I explained why it's logical. It all has to do with the definition of a clue and a hint according to f. Did you comprehend that part? I explained it twice. It's not where hints are located in the book that is important. The correct answer to a hint is what's important. A hint can only help a clue(s) from further away than the correct starting point of clue 1....otherwise that hint would have to be a clue. Because, as you say, if the hint is helping the searcher (for example) between clue 8 and 9 it would have to be considered a clue cause it helped you get closer to the tc than clue 8 did. Pretty simple, eh?

No you didn't. You pushed your assumption and called it logic. You don't know where or if there are hints in the poem, but you've decided that if there is one it must be before clue 1. There's nothing saying there aren't other hints in the poem whose only purpose is to help identify a clue, not bring you closer to the tc.
"You pushed your assumption and called it logic." Yup exactly, well said resa.

And exactly why I had said:

It would be very difficult, if not nearly impossible, to identify what one might consider a very subtle hint within those thousands of words without unintentionally interposing their individual bias or interpretation of the poem upon these presumed hints.

And again Mr fundamental, please do tell us what subtle hints you feel are important in identifying the correct wwwh or those that supposedly help form an X on the map.
Reply
08-28-2017, 10:58 PM,
#34
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 10:42 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 10:37 PM)RedneckExpress Wrote: I think all y'all are making this clue-vs-hint thing waaaaay too complicated and are splitting hares.

I just look for hints and clues in my research to help me solve the overall case and see the big picture of this gigantic puzzle. It's already difficult enough, keep it simple, kids.

Cheers,
RedEx

I agree with you Reddy, but I'd say this is the easier way. A lot easier than the earlier post that complained about all the words in My War For Me and trying to find a subtle hint in it. Well, it's probably 160 times harder to find the tc from just using the clues in the poem.

I prefer to just follow f's recipe for serious searchers and that's what this thread is about. I think f's recipe is the easiest way. So in a way, we don't get or need to judge what's more complicated. F has already told us.

I will say I think the few hints are non subjective and that's how it makes it easier to go along the route of understanding the hints. The first clue is subjective without the hints in my opinion!
If you are not willing to put in the effort of decoding the mere 166 words in the poem, and instead try and short cut it by sifting through the tens of thousands of words in the book, in hopes of finding those very subtle hints that will only help you with those nine clues found in the poem, then go ahead and knock yourself out champ.
Reply
08-28-2017, 11:43 PM,
#35
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
I'm completely lost at this point to be honest.

The conversation I joined in with involved the idea of FD's that all hints suggest warm waters halt, because any aid from hints after that lead the searcher closer to the treasure. Doing so, defines those hints as actual clue.

I disagree with that logic.

I stopped replying when asked for an example. I'm not giving out any answers of mine. Nope. Not to win an argument on an internet forum lol.

I have no idea what's being discussed now
Reply
08-29-2017, 03:07 AM,
#36
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 06:38 PM)LuckyLove Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: .......The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh.....

Is this confirmed by Fenn? Or is it personal/popular opinion? Not saying there are or aren't hints for wwwh just wondering what you're basing this on. Usually people cite at least one unarguably factual source that supports their claim. Without anything that's 100% concrete to support the claim it's nothing more than an opinion. Basing the belief that there's a hint to wwwh in the book or elsewhere based on a personal/popular interpretation of statements or based on personal/popular thought that leads one to interpret wwwh any certain way due to perceived but unconfirmed hint(s) is confirmation bias.

The closest he's come to addressing this, as far as I'm aware, was posted earlier by The Count. But, Fenn'ss answer doesn't confirm that there's a hint to wwwh anywhere in the book. Just that there's hints in the book.

I'd like to know what, exactly, you're basing the above quoted statement on? If it's based on fact that's great and it would be greatly appreciated if you shared the fact(s).

There is at least one thing in the book that hints at WWWH, but it's all speculation until the chest is recovered. I don't think Fenn has, or ever will, confirm what hints are in the book, or not.
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08-29-2017, 03:26 AM,
#37
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-29-2017, 03:07 AM)Umbra Wrote: There is at least one thing in the book that hints at WWWH, but it's all speculation until the chest is recovered. I don't think Fenn has, or ever will, confirm what hints are in the book, or not.

Did FF say there was an 'unintended' hint/clue in the preface and that it was 'obvious' or something to that effect? I imagine that I know what it is. Has anyone been so bold to openly speculate about what is the unintended clue in the preface?
Reply
08-29-2017, 07:13 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017, 07:14 AM by Itchy Ideas.)
#38
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 10:53 PM)Kpro Wrote: Drama started by some who have resurfaced tonight. Very sad for the rest of us not as self proclaimed famous and wanting to cause drama on cc.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com

I think it is just discussion on different theories.

Yes, claiming what one says as "logic" when it really doesn't seem logical to many others can be flabbergasting, but that is something you should ignore when trying to conversate. It is a passive dig at the other person, but to the "logical" person it is just how they feel I guess. The adjective is unneeded but in order to have a decent discussion just ignore it.
Some take offense to it. That'll get you nowhere and cause the OP and theory to become lost.

So, I have admitted that I am now lost in this conversation and restated the thought I was hoping to get back to.

(08-28-2017, 11:43 PM)Itchy Ideas Wrote: I'm completely lost at this point to be honest.

The conversation I joined in with involved the idea of FD's that all hints suggest warm waters halt, because any aid from hints after that lead the searcher closer to the treasure. Doing so, defines those hints as actual clue.

I disagree with that logic.

I stopped replying when asked for an example. I'm not giving out any answers of mine. Nope. Not to win an argument on an internet forum lol.

I have no idea what's being discussed now

(08-29-2017, 03:26 AM)AccountAtAGlance Wrote:
(08-29-2017, 03:07 AM)Umbra Wrote: There is at least one thing in the book that hints at WWWH, but it's all speculation until the chest is recovered. I don't think Fenn has, or ever will, confirm what hints are in the book, or not.

Did FF say there was an 'unintended' hint/clue in the preface and that it was 'obvious' or something to that effect? I imagine that I know what it is. Has anyone been so bold to openly speculate about what is the unintended clue in the preface?

Yes, read the title.
Then read the preface with the title in mind.
Reply
08-29-2017, 07:39 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017, 07:45 AM by fundamental design.)
#39
RE: THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 09:47 PM)LuckyLove Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 07:31 PM)fundamental design Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 06:38 PM)LuckyLove Wrote:
(08-28-2017, 12:24 PM)fundamental design Wrote: .......The hints will shine the way to the correct wwwh.....

Is this confirmed by Fenn? Or is it personal/popular opinion? Not saying there are or aren't hints for wwwh just wondering what you're basing this on. Usually people cite at least one unarguably factual source that supports their claim. Without anything that's 100% concrete to support the claim it's nothing more than an opinion. Basing the belief that there's a hint to wwwh in the book or elsewhere based on a personal/popular interpretation of statements or based on personal/popular thought that leads one to interpret wwwh any certain way due to perceived but unconfirmed hint(s) is confirmation bias.

The closest he's come to addressing this, as far as I'm aware, was posted earlier by The Count. But, Fenn'ss answer doesn't confirm that there's a hint to wwwh anywhere in the book. Just that there's hints in the book.

I'd like to know what, exactly, you're basing the above quoted statement on? If it's based on fact that's great and it would be greatly appreciated if you shared the fact(s).

Just basing it on logic. We have to take into account what f tells us what a clue does for a searcher and what a hint does for us. They are different. A clue gets one closer to the tc. A hint helps with the clues. I paraphrased that as I don't readily know where f's quote of those descriptions are.

And then we recently had f's lost words on what the first clue is...wwwh. Lastly, the clues are consecutive. Use logic and you see what I said. A hint in ttotc can't get you closer to the tc than the first clue (wwwh). ***If a hint did get one closer, then by f's definition it can't be a hint...it's a clue***. Same thing if there's a hint in the poem like the first stanza. The first stanza literally has the word "hint" in it. "Begin" in the second stanza has been proven by f to mean begin.

In short, if we know where the first clue is and the clues are consecutive then any hint can't help after clue 1. Hints have to help before then.

Then you should quit now. Where in the OP did I say anything about confirming any hint?

I see what you're saying but it's based on "reasoning" that leads to the following false conclusion:

Premises:
A.) A clue gets one closer to the treasure
B.) A hint helps solve the clues
C.) The first clue is wwwh
D.) The clues are consecutive

Conclusion: a hint can't get you closer to the treasure than the first clue. (Therefore, all hints lead to wwwh?)

That's a false conclusion who's only purpose is to serve a personal (biased) viewpoint. There's no logical way to deduce from the provided premises your conclusion. Let's use the following statement and logic prove your reasoning, on this particular quote, to be faulty:

Forrest Fenn: An Interview
By Holly Johnson - July 8, 2013
https://clubthrifty.com/forrest-fenn-an-interview

Holly: What tips do you have for those wanting to find the treasure?

Forrest: Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.

and

Forrest Fenn at Moby Dickens Book Shop | Taos, NM | 11.02.2013
By A Gypsy's Kiss - June 1, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RzrIu3h...k&index=10

@34:41
There are nine clues in the poem but if you read the book, uh, there are a couple. There are a couple of good hints, and then there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.

Premises:
A.) There's at least four hints
B.) There's nine clues
C.) Hints will help solve the clues <----plural

Conclusion: More than one clue has a hint associated with it that could help solve it. Therefore hints extend beyond the first clue. Therefore with a total of nine clues and a couple hints plus a couple more hints the first clue "could be" one of the clues that are hinted at. (Doesn't insinuate that the first clue has to be hinted at)

Anyways, was just trying to see if your original quoted post was based on opinion or if you knew something I didn't. I see now that it was opinion. Was hoping you had a quote I never saw/heard.

I don't agree with how you boiled everything down to it having to be multiple clues that hints help with just because f said clues plural. My claim still stands. If all the hints help solve the correct wwwh then they can still be considered to help with the clues. That's because they got you on the correct clue path. Simple!

And while we're at it can you show us how a hint can help a later clue. I mean, no one yet has been able to show or tell specifically how that would work. You can describe one that you think isn't even a real hint. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of what it means for a hint to help a clue later on in the poem. Can anybody do this..:.

Cause I've already written about my hints numerous times. Some in this thread have seen and responded to my posts about that. So, the one asking me to show mine and saying I'm doing a short cut cause I can't solve the clues in the poem ought to do better research.

(08-28-2017, 10:27 PM)Kpro Wrote: In general incredible solves by leading searchers have been stopped by mere ants, so let's just say anything is possible, right? Absolutes are useless , imo.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com

You must have missed the incredible collection of beads and such from "ANT HILLS" that are in f's collection at his home. I got a great picture of that if you want to see. I think you painted yourself into another corner. You still got it wrong, it wasn't part of our solve. Lol
I think that will do the trick!
Reply
08-29-2017, 07:50 AM,
#40
THE HINTS- VITAL TO SUCCESS
(08-28-2017, 10:27 PM)Kpro Wrote: In general incredible solves by leading searchers have been stopped by mere ants, so let's just say anything is possible, right? Absolutes are useless , imo.


Kpro

Email: kpro3@aol.com


Kpro,
I don't understand why you feel the need to take constant digs at me. And in this same thread, which I did not post and may not necessarily agree with, you say "some," in reference to searchers who you think "want to be famous and start drama." Would you be willing to say who "some" are, and how "some" intended to start drama with "their" posts?

And yeah, harvester ants (yes, not fire ants, but just as nasty) can definitely stop a search. Look it up. Especially if your allergic to insect stings/bites.

And although the ants (and impending darkness--you left that part out) did hasten our departure, I'm pretty sure I said we were not "searching" at Tsankawi. Facts repeated wrong, again. Fake news.

Come on kpro, haven't you always proclaimed to be "fair?"




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http://www.fennhotspot.com
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