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Re-posted idea
11-13-2017, 11:09 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017, 11:20 AM by realistrealist.)
#1
Re-posted idea
Because it was deleted elsewhere.

The poem is meant to be read in two parts. The directions are written in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stanzas so Fenn can keep the "key" stanzas close together (rather than alternating... key, direction, key, direction, key, direction).

Stanza 1 provides the key to reading stanza 2. The key word "I-D-E-A" tells you how to read stanza 2 - you start with the first few words of sentence 1 and combine with last few words of sentence 2. You follow the lines through the stanza. The belief in Fenn being adamant about finding where WWWH is that he is trying to explicitly say WWWH at the bottom of a canyon as the poem references. People go right by this area because they didn't analyze the poem correctly - instead following a canyon away from clue 1 (in the canyon down where warm waters halt).

Stanza 1 reads, according to the key word:

Begin it in the canyon down,
where warm waters halt and take it
Not far, below the home of Brown,
But too far to walk, put in...

Stanzas 3 and 4 are much more difficult to "analyze." Stanza 1 starts off with "As I" which is perhaps a hint towards "So" (Spanish conversion). As you can see from stanzas 3, 4, 5, and 6 - the words "So" in stanzas 3 and 4 mirror "Just" in stanzas 5 and 6. The belief is that stanzas 5 and 6 are telling you that you must read stanzas 3 and 4 in reverse order to match their counter-parts, BUT we need to make sure we know which of the directions stanzas (3, 4) correspond to which of the key stanzas (5, 6) to know which of them we read first. Fenn ends every sentence in stanza 6 with "D" similarly to ending every sentence in stanza 4 with "E." Further, Fenn matches the rhyming (in reverse form) of stanza 5 with that of stanza 3 for two of the sentences. Thus... you are to read stanza 2 first (as described above), and then stanza 3 in reverse and stanza 4 in reverse.

The final trick is the final "I-D-E-A" on the outer edges of the poem. I believe in addition to reading stanzas 3 and 4 in reverse order, you must also alternate (like a spiral) beginning with the final sentence (reverse order) and going to first sentence then back to third sentence and finally to second sentence.

Stanza 3 then becomes:

Just heavy loads and water high.
From there it's no place for the meek,
There'll be no paddle up your creek,
The end is ever drawing nigh;

4th stanza:

Just take the chest and go in peace
If you've been wise and found the blaze
But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
Look quickly down, your quest to cease.

The colophon double omega/horseshoe from last page of TTOTC resembles the pattern seen in the last few stanzas.

https://imgur.com/a/x7JOT

Fenn is explicit in only needing the poem and a good map and he frequently mentions analyzing the poem... not many people care to analyze the poem and they simply try to match items on a map.

If you take what's above and what was in the forward of his recent book, it kind of makes sense with regards to the final clue. He told his friend the final clue would be found in his car by the museum in Denver.

According to the analysis above, the final line of the directions is "Look quickly down, your quest to cease." What is typically referred to as down below the Earth when it comes to religion/Christianity? Hell. What was Fenn planning on doing? Committing suicide. What would he have left in his car from his take-off point? The poem and a death note. I believe a final location that is view-able from the treasure site is something with the name "Hell" or "Devil" in it. The original intent of the comment to Preston was likely a double entendre (referring to location he was literally and figuratively going to). It would likely be the place where you exit the park or creek/location where you end up at (location of the chest).

The above directions when read that way damn near match every point going from Warm Creek in Silver Gate to Calcite Springs in Yellowstone (with home of Brown being Lamar Ranger Station). The only thing I can't reconcile with that is the "Put in" with respect to Buffalo Ford. It might supposed to be read, "Not far, the home of Brown, but too far to walk" and "put in below just heavy loads and water high." Obviously, this is a generalized area as opposed to specific so it's likely incorrect, but I'm sure someone will find the correct location eventually. I believe too many people are focused too much on the books and overlook the poem too much.
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11-13-2017, 11:46 AM,
#2
Re-posted idea
While in the USAF did F have any training in cryptanalysis? Might confirm yours. Also, Mike Lazar’s “Try the wheel.”


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11-13-2017, 11:57 AM,
#3
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 11:09 AM)realistrealist Wrote: ...
Obviously, this is a generalized area as opposed to specific so it's likely incorrect, but I'm sure someone will find the correct location eventually. I believe too many people are focused too much on the books and overlook the poem too much.

If this is correct and I strongly believe it is not then the whole endeavor is virtually insoluble because he built large scale misdirection into the chase. TTOTC hints to one area from cover to cover. If that area is incorrect then it means that in addition to the the obvious misdirection of Yellowstone there is hidden misdirection as well. If that is the case then you either have to completely ignore TTOTC in spite of the fact that he said it would help, and solve the poem alone but the poem has thousands of interpretations. I suspect that he did not place hidden misdirection into the entire book.

ANother thing is that what Preston wrote in the Forward to OUAW is that the final clue would be where they found his car: NOT what they found in it.
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11-13-2017, 12:10 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017, 12:19 PM by realistrealist.)
#4
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 11:57 AM)John Brown Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 11:09 AM)realistrealist Wrote: ...
Obviously, this is a generalized area as opposed to specific so it's likely incorrect, but I'm sure someone will find the correct location eventually. I believe too many people are focused too much on the books and overlook the poem too much.

If this is correct and I strongly believe it is not then the whole endeavor is virtually insoluble because he built large scale misdirection into the chase. TTOTC hints to one area from cover to cover. If that area is incorrect then it means that in addition to the the obvious misdirection of Yellowstone there is hidden misdirection as well. If that is the case then you either have to completely ignore TTOTC in spite of the fact that he said it would help, and solve the poem alone but the poem has thousands of interpretations. I suspect that he did not place hidden misdirection into the entire book.

ANother thing is that what Preston wrote in the Forward to OUAW is that the final clue would be where they found his car: NOT what they found in it.

It's fine you believe it's in NM. I'm not arguing that. I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

Correct, so you believe the final clue is a parking lot or simply the poem? - "keep my secret where" and found "where" (within the poem)... the poem is a map with the treasure hidden somewhere inside it.

I'm simply making the jump of... if he had killed himself and started the chase instead of simply hiding it and releasing a book, he would have likely left the poem in his car for someone to find (and start the chase). The final clue, the poem which hid his secrets (serving as suicide note) and/or a death note, would be found where his car was parked. It's not that important either way.

(11-13-2017, 11:46 AM)obi1knobi Wrote: While in the USAF did F have any training in cryptanalysis? Might confirm yours. Also, Mike Lazar’s “Try the wheel.”


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Forrest stated no need for codes. The method described above is simply relearning to read sentences in the correct order via a key (Fenn stanzas).
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11-13-2017, 12:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017, 12:53 PM by John Brown.)
#5
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 12:10 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

In the early days of the chase there were people who called themselves "Poem purists." They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. Whenever I pointed that out to them they told me I was too pedantic, that obviously they didn't mean by the poem alone, but by the poem plus some other things that they were unable to specify. It sounds like you are advocating a return to the tried and failed ways of 4-5 years ago. Good luck with that.

(11-13-2017, 11:46 AM)obi1knobi Wrote: While in the USAF did F have any training in cryptanalysis? Might confirm yours. Also, Mike Lazar’s “Try the wheel.”


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Its hard to imagine that he did. Most people who know much about cryptography have Ph.D's in mathematics, statistics, physics, or computer science.
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11-13-2017, 01:00 PM,
#6
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 12:38 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:10 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

... They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. ...

ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?

Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.
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11-13-2017, 01:30 PM,
#7
RE: Re-posted idea
All the information is in the poem you could be given 100 hints but that's not saying they are all direct. FF says the whole map is a treasure chest and he uses the words IT and ITS a lot in his hints and in the poem.
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11-13-2017, 02:02 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017, 03:45 PM by realistrealist.)
#8
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:38 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:10 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

... They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. ...

ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?

Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.

And going back to the book - the few ideas from the OP are partially derived from the first and final chapter of the book. "Mirror"ed stanzas 3,4 and 5,6 (mirror and turn in preface). Some candles (more than 1 - 2?) burning at both ends (reading inward from outer edges). Double omegas. Temple/Church/Sanctuary - sign of cross - similar to 1st stanzas (but this is more reading into things). Perhaps the hints are all symbolic representations of what you can draw (based) on the correct reading of the map (poem). Regardless, best to keep a growth mindset and focus on the poem.

I agree with John on some of the crazy poem readings as they aren't simple like ff intimated it'd be if solved correctly. I disagree on whether or not something concrete is written within it as I didn't write the poem.
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11-13-2017, 02:27 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017, 02:28 PM by FennMaster.)
#9
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 02:02 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I agree with John on some of the crazy poem readings as they aren't simple like ff intimated it'd be if solved correctly.
I'm sure you'll agree, a "crazy reading" of the poem doesn't mean more than the poem is needed;
it simply means a better interpretation is needed.

Quote:I disagree on whether or not something concrete is written within it as I didn't write the poem.

Fenn clearly states "All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”

It is pretty tough to disagree with that, unless you think he's lying?
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11-13-2017, 02:31 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017, 02:32 PM by realistrealist.)
#10
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 02:27 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 02:02 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I agree with John on some of the crazy poem readings as they aren't simple like ff intimated it'd be if solved correctly.
I'm sure you'll agree, a "crazy reading" of the poem doesn't mean more than the poem is needed;
it simply means a better interpretation is needed.

Quote:I disagree on whether or not something concrete is written within it as I didn't write the poem.

Fenn clearly states "All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”

It is pretty tough to disagree with that, unless you think he's lying?

Crazy reading as in creating codes and anagrams when Fenn has stated none are needed. Better interpretation needed - yes - thus Fenn's statements about no one discovering the one useful thing to help solve it.

No, I meant definitive and self-evident... ie. the poem confirms the precise location (twice). For example, the above is one interpretation - linking the locations of the direction stanzas back to the key stanzas would be a secondary confirmation of the correct location.
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