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Re-posted idea
11-13-2017, 10:21 PM,
#21
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 10:10 PM)nkown Wrote: not at all convoluted... but also not at all specific in any way. Just more metaphors.

Yea, I'm not sure how to tie it back to a proof on the interpretation or definitive location.
Reply
11-14-2017, 06:11 AM,
#22
Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:38 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:10 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

... They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. ...

ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?

Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.


When you say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,” does that mean all you need is that piece of paper?

Because when you look at that piece of paper, it tells you that you also need a screwdriver and a wrench.

But at the same time, all you need to know to assemble that bike are the instructions, because the instructions tell you what you need to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mindy's blogs:

http://www.fennhotspot.com
http://www.myeverwonderland.blogspot.com
Reply
11-14-2017, 06:36 AM,
#23
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-14-2017, 06:11 AM)Mindy Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:38 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:10 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

... They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. ...

ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?


Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.


When you say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,” does that mean all you need is that piece of paper?

Because when you look at that piece of paper, it tells you that you also need a screwdriver and a wrench.

But at the same time, all you need to know to assemble that bike are the instructions, because the instructions tell you what you need to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A bike that tookb15 years to design and build is one heck of a bike. We need directions on how to either ride it or take it apart. Right now were all just looking at it scratching our heads.
Reply
11-14-2017, 11:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-14-2017, 12:24 PM by FennMaster.)
#24
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-14-2017, 06:11 AM)Mindy Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:38 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:10 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

... They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. ...

ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?

Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.


When you say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,” does that mean all you need is that piece of paper?

Because when you look at that piece of paper, it tells you that you also need a screwdriver and a wrench.

But at the same time, all you need to know to assemble that bike are the instructions, because the instructions tell you what you need to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see assembling a bicycle as a very good analogy.
I wouldn't say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,”.
Anyone that would say that would be mistaken because of course you need tools to assemble a bike.

The person who wrote the poem and hid the treasure said:
“All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”
The poem contains the instructions for finding the tc, it makes no mention of tools needed, I made no mention of tools, the tools for solving the poem are your brain and a map to record the solution on (a computer can be helpful, of course);

The point is, all the information needed to find the treasure is in the poem,
there is no need for ff's books, scrapbooks, etc. (Forrest implies it in the quote)
I never said those things couldn't be helpful, if you're having trouble with the poem, only that they aren't needed.
Reply
11-14-2017, 01:19 PM,
#25
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-14-2017, 11:06 AM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 06:11 AM)Mindy Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:38 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:10 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

... They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. ...

ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?

Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.


When you say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,” does that mean all you need is that piece of paper?

Because when you look at that piece of paper, it tells you that you also need a screwdriver and a wrench.

But at the same time, all you need to know to assemble that bike are the instructions, because the instructions tell you what you need to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see assembling a bicycle as a very good analogy.
I wouldn't say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,”.
Anyone that would say that would be mistaken because of course you need tools to assemble a bike.

The person who wrote the poem and hid the treasure said:
“All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”
The poem contains the instructions for finding the tc, it makes no mention of tools needed, I made no mention of tools, the tools for solving the poem are your brain and a map to record the solution on (a computer can be helpful, of course);

The point is, all the information needed to find the treasure is in the poem,
there is no need for ff's books, scrapbooks, etc. (Forrest implies it in the quote)
I never said those things couldn't be helpful, if you're having trouble with the poem, only that they aren't needed.

Agree! Someone could use only the poem to find the chest. The trick is interpreting each of his clues in the correct way (location, direction, imagination, knowledge).

Forrest said TTOTC would be helpful—that there are a couple of good hints and a couple of aberrations. I was able to confirm a primary clue immediately after reading TTOTC for the first time because I understood his frame of reference for that line in the poem.

Using only the poem is possible but why not take advantage of the resources he recommended to speed up the process? Why make something hard even more difficult?
Reply
11-14-2017, 01:27 PM,
#26
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-14-2017, 01:19 PM)Sourdough Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 11:06 AM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 06:11 AM)Mindy Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:38 PM)John Brown Wrote: ... They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. ...

ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?

Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.


When you say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,” does that mean all you need is that piece of paper?

Because when you look at that piece of paper, it tells you that you also need a screwdriver and a wrench.

But at the same time, all you need to know to assemble that bike are the instructions, because the instructions tell you what you need to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see assembling a bicycle as a very good analogy.
I wouldn't say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,”.
Anyone that would say that would be mistaken because of course you need tools to assemble a bike.

The person who wrote the poem and hid the treasure said:
“All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”
The poem contains the instructions for finding the tc, it makes no mention of tools needed, I made no mention of tools, the tools for solving the poem are your brain and a map to record the solution on (a computer can be helpful, of course);

The point is, all the information needed to find the treasure is in the poem,
there is no need for ff's books, scrapbooks, etc. (Forrest implies it in the quote)
I never said those things couldn't be helpful, if you're having trouble with the poem, only that they aren't needed.

Agree! Someone could use only the poem to find the chest. The trick is interpreting each of his clues in the correct way (location, direction, imagination, knowledge).

Forrest said TTOTC would be helpful—that there are a couple of good hints and a couple of aberrations. I was able to confirm a primary clue immediately after reading TTOTC for the first time because I understood his frame of reference for that line in the poem.

Using only the poem is possible but why not take advantage of the resources he recommended to speed up the process? Why make something hard even more difficult?

I agree that those things could help speed up the process, if you're having trouble solving the poem.
There is no guarantee using those things is going to speed up the process;
in fact it could be argued that it will make getting to the solution take longer, and in doing so make the entire process more difficult.
Reply
11-14-2017, 10:25 PM,
#27
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-14-2017, 06:36 AM)Daniel A Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 06:11 AM)Mindy Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:38 PM)John Brown Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 12:10 PM)realistrealist Wrote: I'm simply arguing for more analysis of the poem and less of the distractions and other tertiary information.

... They analyzed and analyzed and analyzed the poem claiming that they would solve it by poem alone which, of course, doesn't make a lick of sense. ...

ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?


Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.


When you say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,” does that mean all you need is that piece of paper?

Because when you look at that piece of paper, it tells you that you also need a screwdriver and a wrench.

But at the same time, all you need to know to assemble that bike are the instructions, because the instructions tell you what you need to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A bike that tookb15 years to design and build is one heck of a bike. We need directions on how to either ride it or take it apart. Right now were all just looking at it scratching our heads.

Yeah, we are so baffled that we are ready to to throw that bike in the water high; if we could just find it...
just saying ss
Reply
11-15-2017, 08:14 AM,
#28
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-14-2017, 01:27 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 01:19 PM)Sourdough Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 11:06 AM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 06:11 AM)Mindy Wrote:
(11-13-2017, 01:00 PM)FennMaster Wrote: ff said “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”

When considering the above quote, how can you justify saying "it doesn't make a lick of sense"?

Just because no one has done it doesn't mean it can't be done.


When you say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,” does that mean all you need is that piece of paper?

Because when you look at that piece of paper, it tells you that you also need a screwdriver and a wrench.

But at the same time, all you need to know to assemble that bike are the instructions, because the instructions tell you what you need to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see assembling a bicycle as a very good analogy.
I wouldn't say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,”.
Anyone that would say that would be mistaken because of course you need tools to assemble a bike.

The person who wrote the poem and hid the treasure said:
“All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”
The poem contains the instructions for finding the tc, it makes no mention of tools needed, I made no mention of tools, the tools for solving the poem are your brain and a map to record the solution on (a computer can be helpful, of course);

The point is, all the information needed to find the treasure is in the poem,
there is no need for ff's books, scrapbooks, etc. (Forrest implies it in the quote)
I never said those things couldn't be helpful, if you're having trouble with the poem, only that they aren't needed.

Agree! Someone could use only the poem to find the chest. The trick is interpreting each of his clues in the correct way (location, direction, imagination, knowledge).

Forrest said TTOTC would be helpful—that there are a couple of good hints and a couple of aberrations. I was able to confirm a primary clue immediately after reading TTOTC for the first time because I understood his frame of reference for that line in the poem.

Using only the poem is possible but why not take advantage of the resources he recommended to speed up the process? Why make something hard even more difficult?

I agree that those things could help speed up the process, if you're having trouble solving the poem.
There is no guarantee using those things is going to speed up the process;
in fact it could be argued that it will make getting to the solution take longer, and in doing so make the entire process more difficult.

Well, we do have these f statements that may tip the balance one way...

"Well in my book there is a poem and there are 9 clues in the poem and the clues are in consecutive order; If you want to find the treasure chest, you have my book there, I'll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally, the poem and the rest of the book, then go back and read the poem 6,8,10 times, study every line, every word, then after you do that read the book again slowly with the idea of looking for clues or hints that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues." ff -- Report From Santa Fe with Lorene Mills(May 13-16th 2011).

"What I tell people to do…if you’re really serious about looking for the treasure…get ‘The Thrill of the Chase’ and read it and then go back and read the poem over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again, but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint to help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any.” ff -- Moby Dickens Book Shop in Taos/11-2-13.
-.-..The keeper of the key
Reply
11-15-2017, 01:53 PM,
#29
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-13-2017, 09:33 PM)nkown Wrote: Think of it this way....

Anything that is a metaphor -- or even a series of metaphors -- is subject to ambiguity. If you string 9 of those together you are going to be left with very long odds indeed of anyone finding anything.

Consequently, I am of the belief that there is a method to unlock the an entirely different set of words from the poem. The metaphors of the poem will be maintained, but the 'new' words will be quite a specific set of instructions that anyone at all could use to go right to the TC. Only then could one 'walk with confidence' right to the chest.

No amount of WWWH speculation + paddles up creeks + blaze + quickly (up) down etc will do that.

I should add that this is not the first such puzzle created and all puzzles are made by people. So the reason it might have taken quite a while to create is that it needed to make sense both as an abstract poem (the one we read now) and a lockbox with a discoverable, but difficult method to unlock it.

I also think FF never expected a few people to perish in the process... and that he's trying to push it along a bit by helping us out with the SB's, OUAW, etc. Further, the scrapbook numbering system yields something very specific and man, that's a long game to play. Years of SB's and their numbers to get to the end of that puzzle. So he was playing for the long haul, but helping us out along the way.

Final thought: I'm enamored of the idea of redaction in the poem along with substitution. So, for example, he says in an interview -- see what I did there, I got rid of the 'd' in Knowlege. Ok. that seems purposeful to me. Similarly, there is an SB where he says, "I didn't say that quite right but I hope you know what I mean. It's important to have a method" or something to that effect (from memory).

In the end, it helps to know what words to look for by this method and that's why I think the purpose of the OUAW and SB hints gives you... a few key words to use to unscramble the poem.

At least I hope that's the case.

I am in this camp. For example, his wordplay with "butterfly" versus "flutter by," suggests to me that he might use something similar in the poem. It is an anagram, but more than that.

So, “Put in below the home of Brown” might become:

WWH NE FROM THE PUEBLO BONITO

Which is a complete anagram of that line, and “pueblo” not only is something of a contraction of “put in below,” but also reaches back to “home.”

I don’t have a solve, but this is the way in which I am approaching the poem.
-Barbara
Reply
11-15-2017, 02:04 PM,
#30
RE: Re-posted idea
(11-15-2017, 08:14 AM)fundamental design Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 01:27 PM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 01:19 PM)Sourdough Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 11:06 AM)FennMaster Wrote:
(11-14-2017, 06:11 AM)Mindy Wrote: When you say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,” does that mean all you need is that piece of paper?

Because when you look at that piece of paper, it tells you that you also need a screwdriver and a wrench.

But at the same time, all you need to know to assemble that bike are the instructions, because the instructions tell you what you need to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see assembling a bicycle as a very good analogy.
I wouldn't say “All you need to assemble this bicycle are the instructions,”.
Anyone that would say that would be mistaken because of course you need tools to assemble a bike.

The person who wrote the poem and hid the treasure said:
“All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. ”
The poem contains the instructions for finding the tc, it makes no mention of tools needed, I made no mention of tools, the tools for solving the poem are your brain and a map to record the solution on (a computer can be helpful, of course);

The point is, all the information needed to find the treasure is in the poem,
there is no need for ff's books, scrapbooks, etc. (Forrest implies it in the quote)
I never said those things couldn't be helpful, if you're having trouble with the poem, only that they aren't needed.

Agree! Someone could use only the poem to find the chest. The trick is interpreting each of his clues in the correct way (location, direction, imagination, knowledge).

Forrest said TTOTC would be helpful—that there are a couple of good hints and a couple of aberrations. I was able to confirm a primary clue immediately after reading TTOTC for the first time because I understood his frame of reference for that line in the poem.

Using only the poem is possible but why not take advantage of the resources he recommended to speed up the process? Why make something hard even more difficult?

I agree that those things could help speed up the process, if you're having trouble solving the poem.
There is no guarantee using those things is going to speed up the process;
in fact it could be argued that it will make getting to the solution take longer, and in doing so make the entire process more difficult.

Well, we do have these f statements that may tip the balance one way...

"Well in my book there is a poem and there are 9 clues in the poem and the clues are in consecutive order; If you want to find the treasure chest, you have my book there, I'll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally, the poem and the rest of the book, then go back and read the poem 6,8,10 times, study every line, every word, then after you do that read the book again slowly with the idea of looking for clues or hints that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues." ff -- Report From Santa Fe with Lorene Mills(May 13-16th 2011).

"What I tell people to do…if you’re really serious about looking for the treasure…get ‘The Thrill of the Chase’ and read it and then go back and read the poem over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again, but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint to help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any.” ff -- Moby Dickens Book Shop in Taos/11-2-13.

I really see that as saying the same thing I did, except it is a little bit more buried in his statement.
He says "You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues."

So like I said you can find the chest using just the clues in the poem.
The hints in the book, if you can find and decipher those, will help you with the clues.
Whether or not that speeds things up, slows things down, makes things easier or more difficult depends on whether or not you're able to solve the clues in the poem very easily and whether or not you are able to find the hints you need while reading the book, or you end up going down a hundred different rabbit holes by reading the book.
I really don't see those statements as tipping the scales one way or the other, the argument is still the same.
Reply


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